alpine_saint Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 I looked for this thread and couldnt find it, so I started it myself. There is an article on the BBC website where Mark Wotte claims he begged the board not to let us go into administration until the end of the season, and was told by unspecified board members not to worry, the FL couldnt make a 10-point deduction stick. 1. It appears to have been wrong - the final miscalculation in a long catalogue of them 2. I wonder if that arrogant assumption has prevailed and shaped thinking all season long, leading to other serious flaws in judgement along the way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 I doubt he'd have kept us up anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 TBF Alpine, Although i dont necessarily agree with us escaping via a loophole, it is there and I suspect the club took legal advice before making that decision. We are assuming rather a lot - I think the club was expecting Barclays to support until Season's end or they had reason to believe adminsitration could be avoided, either way, I dont see teh club making taht decsions without being confident of the legals... and it may yet prove correct if the club do appeal this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Nope. the final mistake was from so-called fans knowing **** all abot football,and wishing for us to enter administration. deluded by some twisted,insane logic that somehow this would benefit Southampton FC. or,as in your case,some "fans" simply wanted administration because it would destroy the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Who's in admin? Not us mate. I heard Leon Crouch say so last night. It's some entirely different company that we set up specifically in order to cheat the league. We're cheaters! We try to cheat! I hereby officially resign as a Southampton fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 We're cheaters! We try to cheat! . And as the old adage says Cheaters never Prosper. Well they do but not as far as the Football League is concerned. The Football League is enrooted in old England, fair play, respect for the other chap, it's the taking part that counts etc, Trickery and Trumpery are always sanctioned in Old England, although under New Labour Anything Goes is more appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Judging by the comments after his departure and these comments by Wotte, it would appear that Lowe and co. have misjudged the situation regarding administration and the points deduction (as we stand here today). You can take all the legal advice you want (and very often it will contradict itself and come to different conclusions and interpretations), but ultimately the call has to be made by those in charge. Therefore the Board's belief that points would not be deducted has clearly proven incorrect, and if this belief had any impact on the decision to go/or not to go into adminstration then that decision may also have been flawed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Judging by the comments after his departure and these comments by Wotte, it would appear that Lowe and co. have misjudged the situation regarding administration and the points deduction (as we stand here today). You can take all the legal advice you want (and very often it will contradict itself and come to different conclusions and interpretations), but ultimately the call has to be made by those in charge. Therefore the Board's belief that points would not be deducted has clearly proven incorrect, and if this belief had any impact on the decision to go/or not to go into adminstration then that decision may also have been flawed as well. they could have asked me, what'smore I wouldn't have charged them £2000 an hour for listening to their problem and giving advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 they could have asked me, what'smore I wouldn't have charged them £2000 an hour for listening to their problem and giving advice. Were you also of the view (as I was) that the League would not sit back and accept this ruse???? It's polarised opinion on here, with as many thinking we could pull it off as warning we wouldn't, but I could never see how a members organisation would sit back and allow such an attempt at smoke and mirrors to pass off unopposed. I'm also amazed that "experienced football administrators" such as Lowe and co. thought they could pull it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Were you also of the view (as I was) that the League would not sit back and accept this ruse???? It's polarised opinion on here, with as many thinking we could pull it off as warning we wouldn't, but I could never see how a members organisation would sit back and allow such an attempt at smoke and mirrors to pass off unopposed. I'm also amazed that "experienced football administrators" such as Lowe and co. thought they could pull it off. I think if you look at my postings on A-day you'll see that I was in no doubt whatsoever that we would get-10. I even didn't travel over for the Charlton game because of it, just bought my ticket and gave it a miss .'game for nothing' was my appraisal I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefuriousb Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Were you also of the view (as I was) that the League would not sit back and accept this ruse???? It's polarised opinion on here, with as many thinking we could pull it off as warning we wouldn't, but I could never see how a members organisation would sit back and allow such an attempt at smoke and mirrors to pass off unopposed. I'm also amazed that "experienced football administrators" such as Lowe and co. thought they could pull it off. Wasn't the story also that Barclays sought advice too before invoking the clause when the plc exceeded the agreed overdraft by £6k as they are fully aware of how they inextricably linked to money in football (ie the premier league) or indeed lack of it (all other divisions)? If this is true, I would imagine also that they are sitting a tad uncomfortably at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Wasn't the story also that Barclays sought advice too before invoking the clause when the plc exceeded the agreed overdraft by £6k as they are fully aware of how they inextricably linked to money in football (ie the premier league) or indeed lack of it (all other divisions)? If this is true, I would imagine also that they are sitting a tad uncomfortably at present. Barclay's screw up in their assessment and get shafted ?? Love it, made my day. Where is OBS lately, perhaps his revered employers have told him to STFU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 I'm also amazed that "experienced football administrators" such as Lowe and co. thought they could pull it off. Because they thought it was a matter for law and lawyers and sharp wangling. The Football League is the epitomy of Old England, all that counts for nothing. It's like joining some elite golf club, you can be the flashest,richest, most worthy guy but if your wife farts at the ladies luncheon you get blackballed, no question about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Wasn't the story also that Barclays sought advice too before invoking the clause when the plc exceeded the agreed overdraft by £6k as they are fully aware of how they inextricably linked to money in football (ie the premier league) or indeed lack of it (all other divisions)? If this is true, I would imagine also that they are sitting a tad uncomfortably at present. Not heard that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 In hindsight the points deduction has become a moot point anyway as far as this season is concerned , the team will almost certainly relegate us without the slightest assistance from the FL . Starting L1 on minus 10 points is obviously not welcome to put it mildly but this needn't prove a fatal handicap if we can find a new owner and prepare properly for next season . For what it's worth - in my non expert opinion - we certainly have an arguable case against this FL ruling in principle , but it remains to be seen if it'll ever get to court in pratice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Who's in admin? Not us mate. I heard Leon Crouch say so last night. It's some entirely different company that we set up specifically in order to cheat the league. We're cheaters! We try to cheat! I hereby officially resign as a Southampton fan. Please don't - Crouch is an idiot - see the other posts. Or maybe it was yet another sly dig at Lowe and Wilde that everyone is falling for. Either way, it is not true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Judging by the comments after his departure and these comments by Wotte, it would appear that Lowe and co. have misjudged the situation regarding administration and the points deduction (as we stand here today). You can take all the legal advice you want (and very often it will contradict itself and come to different conclusions and interpretations), but ultimately the call has to be made by those in charge. Therefore the Board's belief that points would not be deducted has clearly proven incorrect, and if this belief had any impact on the decision to go/or not to go into adminstration then that decision may also have been flawed as well. The trouble is legality is not the issue - the League is a private members' club & they can do as they wish. 'Sorry Mr Lowe, but Red & White stripes is not smart casual - you're out' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INFLUENCED.COM Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 you can be the flashest,richest, most worthy guy but if your wife farts at the ladies luncheon you get blackballed, no question about it. Have you forgiven her yet ? "If it does need additional interpretation by someone other than the creator, then I question whether it has fulfilled its purpose." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Who's in admin? Not us mate. I heard Leon Crouch say so last night. It's some entirely different company that we set up specifically in order to cheat the league. We're cheaters! We try to cheat! I hereby officially resign as a Southampton fan. I think you are missing the point. Many companies form group structures in order the protect the assets of each element of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 I'm also amazed that "experienced football administrators" such as Lowe and co. thought they could pull it off. The question for me is did they ring an official at the football league to check their understanding before embarking on the course of action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 I think you are missing the point. Many companies form group structures in order the protect the assets of each element of the group. But the FL is beyond the law in their book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 But the FL is beyond the law in their book. off with their heads! Time for the revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisdiaz Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Lets apply the purposive approach to allow us to interpret this rule. Clubs entering administration should be punished.... yes okay the football club 'is not officially,' in administration but the situation has been reviewed and regardless of the holding company its as good as the club itself being in administration. just because we thought the loophole would work doesn't mean it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 24 April, 2009 Share Posted 24 April, 2009 Lets apply the purposive approach to allow us to interpret this rule. Clubs entering administration should be punished.... yes okay the football club 'is not officially,' in administration but the situation has been reviewed and regardless of the holding company its as good as the club itself being in administration. just because we thought the loophole would work doesn't mean it should. why form a group structure? group structures are all about protecting the assets of eash individual company in the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L1Minus10 Posted 25 April, 2009 Share Posted 25 April, 2009 What conversations (if any) happened between Barclays and Lowe before the deadline for admin? You would have thought that Lowe would have sought assurances that the plug would not be pulled until the end of the season. Maybe Barclays said they would support the club as long as we didn't go over the overdraft limit. Either way it's the last a catalogue of incredible **** ups. I guess we'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BridgnorthSaint Posted 25 April, 2009 Share Posted 25 April, 2009 Who's in admin? Not us mate. I heard Leon Crouch say so last night. It's some entirely different company that we set up specifically in order to cheat the league. We're cheaters! We try to cheat! I hereby officially resign as a Southampton fan. The things that this board have done over the past few years have been dispicable but that is not what shapes the club or its fans. I have been a proud Saints fan for over 40 years now and I was born in the City. It is the the people that follow Saints, the friends I constantly make through being a Saints fan and the fact that I can take my young son to the stadium to watch in the knowledge that we will be safe amongst a group of people that know how to behave that shapes this club. We are not cheaters, maybe the board are but there is little we as fans can do about that. Do not abandon this club because of their selfish actions. Stand up. Be proud. This may yet be the greatest escape this club has ever made. Forever Red and White. More now than ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now