Chez

Wasn't McCarthy's `save' exactly the same as Schmichel's? It's just a reaction stop that maybe he needs to try and catch as there is no chance of knocking it round the post, it's too central. No matter what the speed gun says, Armstrong isn't quick and he is having one of those games (treading on the ball etc.) He needs to change his boots and start afresh. Great to see Che in the six yard box to get the goal. Thought there were a couple of other occasions when he didn't do enough to get in that area. Salisu dived in a few times, but got away with it. Sometimes he needs to do less, not more. Romeu is a good player. Hardly put a foot wrong. Concerned about being hit on the break once we get tired. We had bodies to smother chances when they did, but those bodies won't be there when players are knackered.

what criteria? When I said the "prem demands players that can do x,y,z..." I didn't set any criteria. I didn't even mention strikers. You did: "got to be a striker from a bottom 12 side, who only plays down the middle. I repeat, the Prem demands players that can do these things for a side to be successful. Jimenez is working his way back from a serious injury. Its taken a month or two, but assessing him as a player based purely on this season is yet another straw man you have created. Why focus just on this season, especially when there are special circumstances. Criteria you have created to help your argument.

they are forwards. They play forward, not in the middle, not at the back and not in goal. What has `our' system got to do with anything. You create straw men right left and centre. Another is you top 8. Its an imaginary criteria you have created for no reason other then to help strengthen your weak argument. The fact is, you need (the Prem demands) top quality strikers to be successful (or mask limitations elsewhere). "Jimenez misses a lot of sitters and Che is a similar level." I think that's the end of this discussion. Your wife is no doubt more beautiful.

You are trying to tell me that Zaha, Saint-Maximin and Raphina don't create their own goals? Or the likes of Jimenez and Vardy don't take the one chance they get? Goals almost `out of nothing' make a massive difference. The prem demands it if you want to win games (with few chances or when you played badly) and be successful. Maybe not if you want to come 17th.

At the moment we have some variety up front, but do we have players that can create their own goals from nothing, make top class defenders look like mugs every now and then, or take that one solitary chance in the whole game? The Prem tends to demand that, otherwise you have to bomb forward in greater numbers to get goals and that leaves you open at the back. It is what it is. We have brought in the best we can and by and large most fans get behind all of them. I said it on the Liverpool thread that they actually get away with far less criticism than defenders and keepers, despite perhaps making as many, if not more errors. Tella, Broja and Armstrong have only been here five minutes, so we are always going to cut them some slack. Broja seems to offer strength and reasonable pace, his finishing has been good, but the sample size is pretty small. For me, he is the only one that has some stand out characteristics (combination of strength and pace) that opponents fear. Che is not fast, but he holds the ball up well at times and has a great right foot. He's very middle of the road. At his best, he can lead the line and score worldies, at his worst he is a non entity. I wonder if he is actually taking enough shots in games. Armstrong is a little lightweight and doesn't have electric pace, but he has great close control and dribbling ability. His finishing hasn't been great, but again, the sample size is small. His issue is that without the strength or pace, he needs a bit more space, otherwise he doesn't have time to set his feet to shoot before a defender ruins things. He is so similar to Ings in style, but he just needs to be that fraction sharper and then maybe the goals will come. Once on a roll he might be similarly unstoppable as Ings was. Maybe. Tella obviously has the pace, dribbling skills and tricks, but we've seen nothing in the way of finishing. He takes more risks, but that can be good and bad. The sample size is very small, and game time will be an issue unless the manager gets end product out of him. Defenders will always fear pace, so that is a great weapon. If he can demonstrate some finishing ability and composure then the sky may be the limit. As Wenger said, we always think our wife is more beautiful, and you need to be careful not to overate your own players, but it does look like the are reasonable options/pairings available to Ralph that can keep us up.

both feel like `bottom half of the Prem' type strikers to me. They have ability, can hold their own at this level, but haven't really set the world on fire in so much as the top half the table teams would likely want to buy them from us. £15m ish feels about right for that kind of striker. It's not peanuts, but its not serious money (at this level) either.

think he's a bit of a star in Chile. Got to feel a little bit for Blackburn, another striker only finding top form when about to complete their contract, meaning they don't get top dollar for them.

yes. They played together last season. Armstrong got all the goals. Since joining us Brereton has filled the void scoring a hatful.

Linked to Brereton (in the Sun) today, along with Seville. I think Leeds have also been linked - he's out of contract in the summer, scoring goals for fun, so his name is going to be a permanent fixture in the gossip columns. I posted about him a few times a couple of years ago. He looked a very good prospect at Forest, despite scoring fuck all goals. He was very young to be fair and led the line well in the games that I watched. He looked strong, had a nice touch and the ability to bring others into play. Since moving to Blackburn, he's discovered where the net is. I have to admit I have not seen him play for them, but if there are goals to go with his all round game, that would make him a decent player. Anyone seen much of him for Blackburn?

he ball watches badly. He's good going forward, but I'm not convinced he is a very good defender. KWP is better in defensively and I am not sure we lose a huge amount offensively if KWP plays - he's been tremendous since he came to us, they both have, but I'd go with KWP.

Good challenge or not, he had control of the situation, but wasn't good enough to take advantage, and fucked up allowing the defender the opportunity to make a challenge. It was poor play. You need ruthless strikers that are clinical in those situations. Get your feet right, cut inside and smash it in the corner or make the pass and let Broja do it. Yep, the Tella created opportunity was one I expect a striker at this level to take. He completely missed the target on his swinger, then the second chance was much harder. he had another good opportunity in the first, when Livramento cut it back but his shot, although in the corner, was tame. The long and short of it is, he has some good attributes, has done quite well, but to have any chance at Anfield you need strikers that score when that solitary chance comes. Ings did that for us. Not sure Armstrong will ever be as good.

They didn't score, but they were involved in two of the goals. Mane's beautiful nutmeg pass set up Richardson to make a simple pass for the first goal. Mane, unchallenged, heads in what might have been the second, but was a fraction offside (if at all). Salah sets up Jota on a plate for the second, his badly cleared cross led to the third. They created other chances for Jota and themselves. A break from our corner saw Salah run half the length of the pitch with the ball, and then fluff his cross to an unmarked Jota with Mane stood behind him. How they didn't score I will never know (MOTD 8;30 on the iplayer). They ran us ragged in the first half at times, just like they do all teams. Mane's curling shot tipped over the bar led to the corner from which they scored. When Jota puts the ball over from a Robertson cross, when scoring looked easier, Salah was stood right behind him and would have had tap in. The intention might have been there, but the idea that the formation stifled Mane and Salah is bullshit.

absolutely spot on. These are the words I have been looking for. We somehow managed to isolate both the three up front AND the three at the back. Killed us.

he was poor. I like what I have seen in recent weeks, but he was rubbish yesterday. Strikers get cut far too much slack, whilst defenders and keepers get murdered if they make an error. There was a situation yesterday when we caught them on the break. Amstrong was on the ball and ran into the box on the left side and from there he needs to set up Broja or shoot and score. He completely fucks up and there isn't even a shot on goal. It was woeful. Stuff like this needs calling out in the same poor defending is. There needs to be balance when criticising players and performance, and thats why I have mentioned him a few times on this thread and also why I've called out anyone mentioning McCarthy who wasn't really at fault at all.

Lyanco inspires zero confidence. What the fuck was he doing for their first goal? The second goal last week was largely down to him and looking at their fourth yesterday, I wonder if he is partly to blame too. If he is meant to be playing zone, then he should be holding his position and then he wins an easy header. I might be being harsh here, as I don't know the instruction, but if you watch it side on, his defending is limp. I don't think we were unlucky not to score, I think our strikers did a bad job. I agree fully about Broja. He caused them big problems and he starts for me when fit. The so called partnership of Armstrong and Che simply is not a thing.

yeah, FFS, if Forster had played, we'd of won that game.

the players made mistakes, the first goal is a complete shit show from front to back, but I think Ralph is genuinely taking the flack because he knows he deserves some of it.

you've better eyesight than me.

cant argue with that, but three strikers pressing and easily bypassed lead to the first goal. It not like we woudn't have pressed if we had gone 4-2-2-2, but in the first five minutes they ripped us to shreds and the gaps caused by the formation and having three strikers really far forward were a big reason for that IMO.

fair point. Why did we lose? Liverpool beat most, bit not all. How did the teams that didn't lose do it?

where is the Steven Davies type to sit in front of two deeper lying midfielders, cut out passes in their third, link play, fill gaps? I guess our 4-2-2-2 formation doesn't create a position for one, but like you say, not bolstering the middle to control games can be folly. To be fair, Liverpool just play around or through congested midfields, we also do control games with Romeu ad JWP, but I'd always add a body in midfield rather than at CB.

you are probably right, but boy did the three striker press get exposed in that first 40 seconds and then the gap between midfield and defence was massive. IMO it had a major bearing on the first goal. Far too gung ho.

wasn't sure if that was him or Bednerek. Woeful. IMO he still has a lot to learn. He dives in all the time. Against top players you get murdered. He has time on his side, but I don't trust him. Not sure Ralph does either.

I honestly don't recall him doing anything at all in the whole game other than missing the header for their fourth. Whether he was genuinely going for it or indeed whether ti was even possible get I;'m not sure.

I blame McCarthy.