Francis1947

Can someone help me out here please and I apologise if I am being a bit thick in not comprehending Saints strategy regarding the Summer transfer business. We gave been informed by many sources that after the sensible re-signing of Flynn and Harwood-Bellis our top transfer target was Matt O'Riley from Celtic. The stats looked good and Martin was personally aware of his effectiveness as a player plus his " character " after working with him previously. In the last few weeks we have been informed that we have been unable or unwilling to meet Celtics vluation of 25 million for O'Riley and talks have eithe stalled or have ended. We, supposedly offered around 15 million and would not go higher. My maths makes that a shortfall of 10 million. And then out of the blue we learnt yesterday that Saints have signed a guy called Archer from Aston Villa for 10 million. Forgive me but doesnt 15 million plus 10 million equal 25 million ! Now I'm not saying that we should pay Celtics valuation simply because that is an abitrary figure they have put on his head. However if he really was our number 1 target and Martins choice why have we gone ahead with the Archer deal ! A player many of us here have no knowledge about. Factor in that it looks as though we will now be receiving a fee for Mara and Bella-Kotchap this doesnt make any sense to me at all. Can someone please explain to this frazzled old 76 year old brain of mine ! Anyhows, onwards and upwards and looking forward to the new season and Saints at Newcastle this afternoon

A gentleman can always change his wife, but never his football club.

Just spotted a post on FB that reads....." A mate of mine bought a ticket for Sundays final many months ago. The cost plus flight was £365. He has now just realised that Sunday is the date of his wedding, so he was wondering if anyone wants to take his place. He added that she's 5ft 5 and quite attractive "

I do agree with this post about the risks taken in our own penalty area. Saints have been my side for over 60 years and I wish them well and would welcome a return to the Prem. However,aren't they a mystery sometimes on the way they play under Martin. And Sundays match was a microcosm of the way they are coached. On several occasions at West Brom they took mind blowing risks in trying to move the ball around in their own penalty area and got away with it by the skin of their teeth ! I do understand I think the strategy and concept of it ; trying to manoeuvre opposing players out of position in order to take an advantage and break out However at the other end when attacking they seemingly are being coached not to take similar risks. The number of times in the match Sunday and throughout this season we have managed to put a player clear on the touchline and near to goal and almost inevitably that player, be it KWP or Smallbone on the right or Manning or Bree when he plays,on the left will pull it back or sideways across the pitch. Many times you can see an opportunity to cross the ball first time but this team,coached as they are,will just not do it . It is an absolute mystery to me that they seemed to have been coached to take risks near to their own goal but to not at the other end.

Much as it pains me to say this but our club is in utter disarray at the moment. I was prepared to give Martin some time and reserve judgement as I didn't know anything at all about the bloke. However, I cannot belive what I am watching over the last 3 matches and defeats. I didnt go last night due to a little ill health so watched it on Sky via the red button. The coverage was poor with no high definition, only one camera and no replays orr playbacks. But what I saw was a side devoid of all attacking ideas or threats. Slow,turgid,ponderous play from the back. No pace, no intent. And then add the tactics,the strategy, the set up and the line up of the side. All of that the responsibility of the Manager. I've been watching and supporting Saints for nigh on 60 years and boy, have I seen some bad nights as well as some good ones. But I'm not sure I've seen much worse thn the dross served up against Ipswich. For probably the firts time in my life supporting Saints, I wanted to just switch off. It was tiresome and boring ! To see the same stuff served up time andtime again. Bazunu chucks the ball out to one of the central defenders ( whoever it is ), he in turn passes it square to his mate, he feints to actually make a cunning forward pass....but never does ! Bednarek is especially good at this. He will tapthe ball a few feet forward for 6/7/8 times supposedly looking for a creative forward pass but always without fail either passes sideways and back to the keeper again. And all the time the opposing side have had all the time to set up and defend. And then we have our midfielders, Aribi and Smallbone. How many times did Smallbone make 5yard passes sideways or instantly back again. Can someone tell me what that achieves other than making his passing stats look good ! Somebody has already mentioned his utter lack of any athleticism. Did he make a single tackle last night. And he's our defensive midfielder. Two other points that other posters have already mentioned but are important to the mindset of the sside under Martin. Last night Edozie had the ball on the right touchline. I think it was in the firts half. His opposing full back was 20 yards back. So, you think this would be the time to run at him. This is Edozies skill. He can skin a defender. He did start to run at him and then for some inexplicable reason he stopped dead and passed the ball back into our own half to Walker-Peters I think. Why !!!!! And my second point already mentioned before by other posters was Leicesters fourth goal where 3 Leicester players ran the ball from the edge oftheir penalty area, after a misplaced pass from Sulemana. The guy who scored had so many choices. He could have passed either to his right or left or taken the chance himself. Saints defenders were 20 yards back, all in his wake. When I was home from deployment, I used to watch decent grade Hampshire League football or New Forest League football and that never ever happened even at that level. So, the question is, would I have Ralph back ? Yes, in a heartbeat ! He had his faults, he was probably coming to the end of his tenure.....but he was a significantly better Manager for us than Jones, Selles and Martin in my opinion.

Dear Whitey My thoughts and prayers are with you today. Everything here is an absolute irrelevance when you read a post like yours.

Saint Well, we know this isnt going to happen but let our imaginations take flight and say why not. Presuming Selles will not be appointed, what are the realistic altenatives. And I emphasise " realistic " We either go for an experienced guy who might be available next season. That list MIGHT include Hodgson, Dyche, Moyes, Rogers.....and maybe Potter. Would any of that list drop down into the Championship and do they have the skillset to be successful in a leagie very different to the Premirership. Or....we look to an up and coming Mangerfrom the lower divisions. And look how that ended up last time ! Now, one of the reasons Ralph will not be re-appointed would be that Ankerson would have to admit that he not only got almost everything wrong but catastrophically wrong. And his enormous ego and self importance will not allow him to do that. Just as an aside. I read in one of the papers yesterday that in one of his books, he wrote....." It is aint broke....change it " !!!!! Sums the bloke and his philosophy up I think ! So, I would have Ralph back. He had dignity and principles and was a good and honest man I believed and I was somewhat proud that he was the Manger of a football club that I have supported for almost 65 years. He's rested, he's refreshed and he's available . Wouldnt out the cat amongst the pigeons in the football world to re-appoint him. Fire away....I'm big enough and old enough

An interesting but superfluous argument going on here and in some sports sections ofthe Sundays about ....what if , regarding retaining Ralph. I do a agree with Trousers here that it wasnt the sacking of Ralph that got us in this mess but the selaction of his replacement. I always liked and had a lot of regard for him. I think he was a principled and hardworking man and a talented coach. A complete opposite to the clown who followed him regarding principles and to Selles who has been utterly inept in my mind with selection and tactics and stratergy. However, like many here , I did think his time was up. In the last couple of months of his reign he looked tired and I think had run out of steam. Also there were rumours that he had " lost the dressing room " Whatever that actualy means. In my own experience, in my time in the Navy, I worked for and alongside a few blokes who were a superior rank to me and were my immediate Bosses. But I dont think my dislike or lack of regard for them had any influence on how I did my job. I just got on with it as I suspect many blokes on this website did in their respective careers. So, we are relegated with an abysmal and shameful number of points gained in the season. 24 points ! It's hard for that to sink in isnt it ! Also I doubt that we will add to our total in the last 2 matches. So, the argument is.....what if Ralph had stayed. Where would we be if he had had the additions of Alcarez and Lavia for more of his matches ? My opinion now is ....probably yes. We needed maybe 7/ 8 more points. 2 wins and 2 draws eh. If only ! And this is just wimsy and it aint going to happen. But we are playing ...what if...here. What if they asked Ralph to return in the Championship. Would we welcome him back after an extended rest ? They say never go back but I'm not so sure. Woud his style and man management cope with Championship football and be a success ? I must admit I would have him back. And I know that it isn' t goingto happen but in the depressed mood all us Saints fans are in now, it makes you think eh

Vectis Saint I admit that I made an error in my original post when I mentioned that it wasnt mentioned or shown. I accept that Neville did comment on it. However my beef is that in almost any other game in the Prem that I have watched on Sky or BT when someone is laid out for a significant time, as Bednarek was and, both clubs medical teams came onto the pitch and there was a worry that he was badly injured. Once that player recovers there is usually an extensive discussion and an almost forensic detailing of what happened . That did not happen on Friday night and I just wonder why. Is Var able to look at an incident like this whilst the game is suspended and alert the referee ? And if that comes within the remit of VAR why wasnt it done. That's all. I agree with some here that there were a couple of other fouls on Saints players that looked pretty clear to me and the ref waived play on to both. A trip on Alcarez just outside the penalty box....in clear Ward-Prowse territory !.....and Sulemana was first pushed and then illegally challenged when he tried to break clear in the second half. I'm not saying there is a conspiracy here regarding refereeing decisions agains clubs such as ours. However it is only human nature for a referee to be intimidated by a hostile home crowd as it was at the Emirates on Friday and to be " persuaded " by a volatile manager gesticulating consatntly on the touchline. As Arteta clear is and was. That is a luxury the Saints do not have. Our home support is generally meek and quite quiet and Ralph and Selles were never the most demonstrative to the ref on the touchline. The little idiot Jones tried to but no one took him seriously did they !

Apologies Derry, You are right. They did show a brief replay. I forgot that ! However my point is the same that no mention and no discussion was made of what happened at all by any of the pundits, commentators either at half time or post match. I thought that was bizarre as I agree with you that it was a very dangerous challenge. And I seem to remember a few weeks ago in another televised match at St.Marys.....I cannot remember who they wre playing !.....Alvarez made a rather rash challenge on someone and was yellow carded. And at half time almost the entire 20 minutes or so was taken up by Garry Neville and his felloq pundits on how bad the tackle was and how lucky Alvarez escaped with just a yellow. I'm no conspiracy theorist but I do think, for many reasons, clubs like ours in the Prem are refereed to a different standard to the top 6. I'm not au fait with the exact remit of VAR but cannot the VAR guys refer this thing back to the ref for him to take a look ? There was time as the game was stopped for many minutes for Bednarkek to get treatment. And to follow this through, if Martinelli had been found guilty of a rash and dangerous challenge and been sent off , how would that have affected the match ? In my opinion he caused us many many problems on that right wing and KWP struggled to contain him. Oh well. If only eh !

Lots of good stuff written here on last nights game. So, now I have recovered this morning, may I make a point about the challenge on Bednarek last night that resulted in him being substituted. My query is why this incident wasn't discussed at all on Sky, either at half time or at the end of the match. No clips were showed at all of it either. Now in Premiership matches when there is a contentious decision or a bad tackle in a match, usually that incident is disected frame by frame by the pundits and pannelists , and discussion is always held on the severity of the tackle, the timing, whether it was studs up etc. Absolutely nothing was said last night about what I believed was a pretty dangerous challenge. Martinelli made a back on Bednarek when he was in the air. And for some minutes it looked as though Bednarek was badly hurt. And just a further point. As well as being a season ticket holder at Saints I am also have a club membership at Northampton rugby club. It enables me to have a chance of buying my ticket early before they go on general release. I have been a commited supporter of rugby as well as football for nigh on 65 years and I usually attend about 4 of Northampton home matches throughout the season, in between supporting Saints.s It's a game I know quite well and one I love. Rugby has been through one hell of a rethink in the last 3 years regarding tackle heights and what constitutes dangerous play. And it still is a much more physical contact game than football ever was. Any challenge on a player in the air in Rugby Union now is almost always punished with a red card. Any player catching the ball in the act of jumping must be allowed to have both feet back on the ground before he is tackled. This didnt happen last night with the Martinelli challenge and I'm bemused that it wasnt even spoken about for the entire rest of the match and after the game ended. Any thoughts why and anyone else have a different take on the contact made ? .

Whitey. I entirely agree with you. In Rugby Union,both in league matches and Internationals there is clear communication between the officials and the TMO. It is heard clearly on the TV broadcast or you can buy an earpiece for a couple of quid and listen in to all the comms between referee and players. And very illuminating it is too. Especially the rapport and humour and respect that generally goes on between them. A perfect example was in the 6 Nations match in Paris last week between France and Scotland. The ref was a Rumanian guy,relatively inexperienced but pretty good in my opinion. He firstly gave a red card to a Scots player for a dangerous tackle to the head. Rightfully so in my opinion under the new rugby protocols. You heard the exact process he went through...height of tackle,degree of danger,any mitigating factors etc before he made his decision. We, the fans,listened in to all the comms so we understood how the decision was made. Later on a French player made a much more dangerous tackle to the head of the Scottish scrum half. For some inexplicable reason , you first heard the ref think it only warranted a yellow. You then heard the conversation between the TMO and the assistant referees running the line,who persuaded him to take a look again and change his decision to a red. There was no confusion whatsoever with the fans. We heard the exact process of how both decisions were made. Wouldn't that be a great benefit in football matches. My gut feeling is that the standard of refereeing in England is so poor now, they would be embarrassed on how some decisions are made

Thankyou Lighthouse. That is a perfect response and it has made me smile this morning. Hallelujah he has gone and good riddance

Hi JRM Good advice. Think I will take it. Apologies for the emotion in my post as I'm usually a very mild mannered bloke. But he is so unlikeable isn't he ! I was just about coming around to listening to the match on Saturday and maybe ....just maybe....giving him a little leeway and then I watched this press conference and all the weirdness, the phrases and answers that actually mean nothing came out. Just utter bloody gibberish ! I will calm down. It's not good for me at my age ! I just keep asking the same question. How the hell did we end up with this man !!!!!

Like many here, I have just watched his latest press conference. This man is weird. Just ignoring the utter bullshit that is coming out of his mouth. But just look at the character traits. The body language ! The facial ticks, the looks from side to side,the expressions, the latent anger,the bloody winey sound of his voice ! I'm no psychiatrist but I have worked and served under many blokes who were real leaders of men. None of them looked or sounded like this utterly strange little man. He is a fraud . Like many here I have an utter hatred of this man now. A little unfair but that's how it is. He put himself in this position and he now has to take the flack.

Many thanks Derry for your kind thoughts. Just had to endure 2 " procedures " !!!! One from above and one below the water line !!!!! Dont want to go through that experience ever again but all fine. Just getting old now. My Missus thinks it's best not for me to attend on Saturday. I would like to as I think it's going to be interesting ! Presume you are going so please give the little twerp hell for me .

I'm not sure whether I need or have to add to this thread. I agree with almost everyone here regarding Jones. However, I will add my 2 penneth because that is all we .....all of us Saints fans here on this Forum...can do. This Club is important to us and it is truly dreadful to see where we are going here with this bloke. I had a minor spat with wild-saint a few weeks ago when he referred to me as a " wet fanny " ! However, I have liked many of his posts on this thread so we are good mates now as we have to be because all of us here support our Club and need to stay together as we have a deep concern about our future now. My absolute concern here is how the hell did this strange man ever get this job. What were the processes before he was announced as our Manager ?. Weren't any of his chararcter traits spotted when he interviewed ? They show quite clearly in his interviews. His nervousness, his irritabilty, his defensiveness, his anger, his agressiveness when mildly challenged, his ability to deflect and not take any responsibilty.Add in his constant picking of his nose, his nail biting. Also he's unkempt, he's dishevilled, he's untidy. He's the Manager of our Club for Christs sake. He should be better than this. I do believe he is a charlaton and a fraud. Just out of interest I have listened to interviews he did whilst at Stoke and Luton and all the wierd stuff is there. The modern football buzz words like " high press " and " transition " It makes a very simple game sound complicated and it is not ! For my sins, some months ago,I listened to several inteviews on Radio Solent with the Blue Fews former manager, Danny Cowley and I think he and Jones are cut from the same cloth. They used the same pointless, meaningless stuff. And please forgive me for this last bit. I've mentioned all this before in a previouspost and I apologise if it's boring too many here. However I think that when we are faced with this debacle within our Club, you can only use your own experiences in work and your life to compare and have an opinion . I served in the Royal Navy for quite a number of years. I, like everyone in the Services, went through very strict and traditional processes to attain a promotion. Board interviews with blokes senior to you. Tests to make sure you knew what you were doing and was up forthe job. Jones would have been found out in seconds ! How the hell did he get this job ! Add in that I was paid a pittance compared to what this bloke is on. In my opinion he is utterly inept and ill suited to be our Manager. I liked Ralph. He had dignity and principles. I did think that his time was up as our Manager but I would have him back in a heartbeat instead of this wierd and worrying little twerp . After that atrocious interview after the Brentford match I am reminded of a saying in the RN....... "Best to keep your mouth shut just in case people think you might be an idiot rather than open it and have it confirmed " . I have had a little bit of ill health lately so I wont be going on Saturday. I wish everyone well who is going and I hope this is resolved very soon now

Hello thornhill saints I'm afraid I cannot remember anyone of that name at the time. May I ask what branch of the Navy was your Father in ? When I joined Hermes in 1967 I was one of quite a few Midshipman who were transferred there on our first deployment. To any rank on the carrier we were young " Snotties ", the traditional name given by the Navy to very young Midshipman who knew nothing and were very wet behind the ears ! I think the thinking was that as the Hermes was the largest ship in the Navy at the time, we would do the least amount of harm. She still was a large ship with a big compliment. Hermes was in her last years of being a Catobar carrier with fixed wing aircraft. The main ones being Buccaneers. I was only on her for a matter of months and .....I think in 1970....all her gear was removed and she became a Commado carrier carrying a compliment of Royal Marines and Sea King helicoptors. I hope you have very fond memories of your Dad. One of the chosen Few !

Dear wild-saint I am responding to your comment about my post. Now, admittedy I dont think I expressed myself too well when I said that I probably would not renew my season ticket next season if Southampton FC pursued their policy of signing unproven young players this season rather than an experienced well proven players like Ings who might just get us out of this mess we are in. I should have also said that I am 75 years of age now and the time has come I think to end the longish treck from my home in the New Forest to St.Marys on each and every home game. However I'm pretty certain my thoughts did not warrant your rather abusive comment. Now, I am old school and I like to defend my corner. So, shall we compare who is the " wettest fanny ".....whatever that bloody means ! In 1965, at the age of 18, I won a scholarship to Dartmouth Royal Navy College. It was hard won. After 2 years at Dartmouth I came out as a 20 year old Midshipman and firts erved on H.M.S Hermes. I then served for 22 years in the Royal Navy serving on 5 warships in my career. One of those warships was H.M.S. Glamorgan and on that fine ship I sailed from Gibraltar in 1982 to the South Atlantic to take part in the Falkands War. By then I had attained the rank of Lieutenant and had trained on a weapons system called Sea Slug and become a very junior Warship Officer. On June 12 1982 the Glamorgan was hit by an Excocet missile fired from the island and we lost 13 of our shipmates and friends. We were very badly damaged and arrived back in Pompey in July and I saw my my wife who I hadn't seen for almost 6 months. We had sailed to Gibraltar earler in the year to take part in Excercises with the U.S. Navy in the Mediterranean. I left the Royal Navy in 1987 with the rank of Lieutenant Commander. Not a meteroic rise I know . Three promotions in 22 years but by then I knew I had reached my ceiling in regards to my abilities.. I had served with many blokes who were far brighter than me but I think that I did ok. So, my old Mate. Want to meet for a pint somewhere and discuss who is the "wettest Fanny " ? You or I ? You see I think this forum is a pretty good thing. People like you and I.....fellow Saints fans can discuss and share opinions. Unfortunately there are afew guys on here who resort to abuse if someone has a different viewpoint. My 2 pennies worth

If the latest news that West Ham have offered Villa £12 million pound for Ings and that could be a successful bid, I would be utterly pissed off. And I am a mild mannered man and dont often use language like that ! Now there could be a number of reasons why he would choose the London club over us. He might not want to return and if so then that would be acceptable and understandable. But, if we they get him and we do not because : a. We didnt pursue him aggressively enough and our offer was a poor one in comparison to theirs or b. We are still on this path of selecting and signing young players of potential with a future sell on fee, in the hope that they will be our saviour this season......then to my mind we are bloody doomed ! And if he signs and he scores 5 maybe 6 goals that keep them up and we go down, then I think I will be done with supporting Saints after 60 plus years.

Hi Derry What wonderful memories they were eh. Cannot remember the Man C match but my Dad and I did go to the Nottingham Forest match and remember it well. It was under floodlights....yes ? You were accurate in your description of George Kirby " terrifying " Peter Grummitt that evening. Think Grummitt had some England caps too. Football was a very different game then. Seem to remember Kirbys final goal, a header, he took the ball, Grummitt and most of the net with him when he powered the header in ! What an effective player Kirby was in those days. Big, strong and fearlesss with alot of needle. Think we bought him from Plymouth along with Stuart Williams from WBA and Tony Knapp from Leicester ( I think ) And then the trip to White Hart Lane. What a game that was. Your post brings old memories back of famous players. Cliff Huxford who was our " defensive " mid fielder and Kem Wimshurst was our " attacking" mid fielder. All sides were set up like that in those days. Tony Knapp our captain and centre half. Think he was an England under 23 international and Stuart Williams at full back, a full Welsh international. Think he was in his mid 30's when he joined us. Do you remember Ron Reynolds in goal ! He wore old fashioned glass contact lenses and under floodlights was continiously walking to the edge of his penalty area and rubbing his eyes ! It never filled you with confidence ! Thankyou for the memory jog..

Just reading the posts again on this thread and particular references to the re-signing of Ings and whether it involves a little bit of nostalgia for some of us. Please bear in mind that I am an old boy now of 75 years and first attended a Saints match in 1959. So, real nostalgia for me would be watching againTerry Paine on the right wing and Johnny Sydenham on the left providing the crosses for Ron Davies to head into the net in front of a packed Dell.....especially evening matches under floodlights. The atmosphere was fantastic. Wonderful memories as a little lad attending every home match with my old Dad. I seem to remember that some teams used to spend the night at the Polygon hotel nearby and walk to the Dell before the match. Remember walking with Ray Wilson one evening when he was playing for Huddersfield and before he was capped by England. Some local kids asked for a pic and the after he stopped to allow them to take one, they pretended that thy didnt know who he was.....and he got very annoyed and grumpy ! Now, that's nostalgia !

Someone posted that there could be some nostalgia kicking in by wanting Ings back. And there could be a grain of truth in that for some of us. However if that is true, I think we....the fans the club sorta got our fingers burnt when Walcott resigned. There was a nostalgic feeling in signing the young guy we nurtured and sold on and then for him to resign in the twilight of his career. It clearly didn't work out did it ! The greatest thing Theo had in his armoury was pace and it became clear very early on that he had lost that and his effectiveness had been greatly reduced. For me that is not the case with Ings. His strength was a natural one. Very few have it. It is to be in the right place at the right time....mostly in the penalty box...and clinically put away chances. I'm an old boy now but those particular skills were shares by Ted Mcdougal, Jimmy Greaves....even bloody Gary Lineker God forbid ! Someone put the latest stats on Ings on here in regard to minutes spent on the pitch v number of goals for Villa. And they are good ! Now I accept there are lots of impededents in the way of him resigning. He might not want to return for a starter ! Length of contract,loan or a permanent deal another...wages ? But as I posted a few days ago. We are in a desperate situation. Graver than any other previous season. In my opinion, we do not want another unproven ' wonderkid ' who might make a difference but probably will not. For once the club's priority should not be about acquiring Someone just as an investment to sell on for profit. We need proven goal scoring ability to get us out of the mire. Ings has that and shown it over many seasons with various clubs. I think Saints gravest mistake in the summer was allowing Romeou to leave. He could have been 'managed ' in key games. I hope we don't all come back in 19 games time and ask why didn't we get in a proven,experienced guy to help Adams out.