SW11_Saint

I think every pundit so far has missed the point on this one. This is not about generally scapegoating England players, or about the hatred of Chelsea. It's about Ashley Cole, and the fact that he's generally loathed. The pass-back just gave the fans the opportunity to express what they generally think of him. He does however personify what most people hate about modern Premiership footballers - and their perceived traits: greed, overblown ego, celebrity, amorality - but he is one of the worst culprits imho.

I am sure this has been done before, but I'm bored, it's Sunday and I fancy stimulating some debate... My question is this: What single event or action signalled the start of our demise, or sealed our fate in your view? (e.g. could be WGS leaving, Boardroom changes, lack of investment after the cup final, the final whistle after the Man Utd game etc.) For me it's absolutely clear - the appointment of Steve Wigley. Not that I'm heaping all the blame on him - in fact I don't hold anything against Steve at all, if anything he was just an innocent victim of circumstance. But when we appointed him, we still had ample time to turn things around, we had a run of 14 emminently winnable games (I think we one one of them), and we still had a half decent squad. If Lowe had of made a sensible appointment then, I am convinced we'd have a decent chance of being in the Premier League still. From the moment I heard that we'd appointed him (and I will always remember it as I was on a business trip in Germany and had to be convinced by a mate that it wasn't a wind up - given we'd been through this once with Stuart Gray). I sat back and though, "that's it, we're f*cked". And so it proved.

Simply put, we won't. Well, not while we have our major shareholders at loggerheads and with ego's which inhibit their ability to make decisions for the best of the club. I don't know about the make up of the Charlton shareholding, but I suspect they are able to get a broad consensus and do what is right for the club. I am not sure how actively Seymour Pearce are looking for investment for Saints, or even if they are. I do not believe it is high on the agenda for Lowe and Wilde (or rather Lowe, who's clearly the one still pulling the strings - Wilde will seemingly just do as he's told); to my knowledge they dynamic duo have not publicly commented on a proactive search for investment.

I'm not a gambling man, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Leicester will be back in the Premier League before us...

Agreed. We've had too many pathetic little small-time businessmen squabbling over who gets to 'sit in the big chair'. If only we could find someone with real business acumen, and frankly, real money (and lots of it!). The fans deserve better than the bunch of clowns we've been saddled with over the last 10 years.

1 point more than losing. Win v Barnsley and it won't be too bad a week. Lose, and it'll be fairly catastrophic...

Yes, but the point is we will have young players playing all season and many fear, as I do, that we will see many more results like this, despite the promising approach play etc. We need some of the older heads involved to add a bit of steel and nouse. Regardless of how pretty this football is to watch, it just won't work on it's own in a cloggers league. Yes, I want us to play the right way, but I also want us to survive in this division - and that may be a real struggle...

Just back from the match. A microcosm of the season ahead I fear - lots of pretty, skillfull football, without end product to match (other than Lalana's brilliant goal), and no real cutting edge. 4-1 was incredibly flattering for a very average QPR side. Big question is, can the kids add steel to the skill. I fear not, but live in hope.

And they say satire is dead...

Positives The best up-tempo, passing, football-to-feet, performance I have seen from a Saints side in about 3 years. Schneiderlin - superb Gillett, McGoldrick, Thompson when he came on, showed real promise Great to have Killer back Birmingham still have a squad made up of Premiership quality players, we'll play lesser teams than them this year, and get better reward Things to learn from Get the tactics right up front - stilll haven't found that magic formula to get the most of our front players Clearly ran out of energy, need to pace things Looked shaky at the back at times - losing Davies is something we cannot afford imo Somewhat naive at times - over passing, when simpler moves would be better All in all, I enjoyed watching them, even though gutted by the results. Can't say I've said that much over the last few years. Need to ensure we have a bit of steel to match the artistry (a la WBA last year), but if we can do that we'll survive. We're likely not going to get much further than mid-table, but this can still be a season of promise.

Actually, other way round - they were singing about Ormerod sh*gging his wife... Juvenile I agree. He was always going to score, but it just gave him the incentive to do it within 30 seconds....

According to Alan McNally on SNS "it could have been 4 or 5, but for Davis in the Southampton goal". Great, all we need another season of fans scapegoating players...

Unbelieveable - not a single thing about the Championship in the Guardian today other than a short article about Birmingham City. Not even a proper fixture list - stuck at the back with all the other cr@p. Their obsession with the premiership is getting ridiculous. NB their excuse will no doubt be that "The Season" free mag is out on Monda, but FFS, you'd think they'd at least acknowledge that something was going on today...

I haven't seen a game yet, so can't say whether I "like what I see" or not - we've had indifferent pre-season results, but then we generally do. All I was saying was that I am trying to put my 'political differences' with the board on ice and focus on the football. Nothing more, nothing less. I suspect it won't last, given the reaction it's provoked on here!

I believe it's called providing some context to my comments...

I was trying to avoid this becoming a "pro/anti Lowe" thread, but you're clearly focussed on pushing it that way. I have no idea whether things will pan out or not. We may get beaten 5-0 in each of our first few games, or might win them 5-0. No idea. The heavy realince on youth players may be the biggest own goal of all time. Again, no idea. So I'll wait to see how things pan out before drawing any conclusions. Incidentally, I'd also feel the same way whether Pearson was in charge, or Crouch for that matter. My point was that I am trying to put my personal feelings about Lowe to one side and focus all of my energies on supporting the team, and the coaching staff (regardless of my feelings about the set up). Nothing more, nothing less. "new forum, same tune". Well, you said it…

I am one of Rupert Lowe's biggest critics. I'll go as far as to say, I really, truly, dislike the guy - for his track record, his inability to learn from his mistakes, his disdain for the fans, and his utter refusal to accept any blame for his part in our appalling demise (and his penchant for scapegoating others). All of that said, I am going to do my damnest to put my feelings for him aside for as long as possible, get behind Jan Poortvliet and the boys (as I have done regardless of who we've had managing/coaching/on the field) and TRY to ENJOY this season. With this in mind, I'm actually looking forward to seeing what we can do on the pitch. Here's hoping I don't have to utter a name other than one of those in red & white, or in the dugout, for the entire season. COME ON YOU SAINTS!

In The Observers Championship review 9 of the 24 fans reviewing the season have us as certs to go down. The Sunday Mirror only has Plymouth, Barnsley, Doncaster and Blackpool with worse odds than us. Depressing stuff - I used to always look forward to the pre-season reviews, even in the Premiership. I'd love to say they're all wrong (certainly hope the NOTW is), but can't realistically see us faring much better than lower mid-table. We'll see though - hope springs eternal!

That's a mistake on the Blackpool review - by a process of elimination they obviously have them as 24th, just below us.