TWar

Against the ball = defending/pressing/marking/basically anything useful when the opponent is in possession With the ball = attacking/passing/dribbling/shooting/basically anything useful when you are in possession. To be good against the ball is to be good at winning the ball back and aiding in your team winning the ball back (ideally in good positions). To be good with the ball is to score goals or to do things that will aid your team in scoring goals. Against the ball is a modern way of grouping all activities which might be beneficial when the opponent has the ball, and is used heavily (almost every other sentence it seems) by our manager and seems to be passing on to the players so might want to get used to its usage.

So just not answering then?

That's a damn shame. I don't like how he left but he is so talented, it's sad to see his career so hampered by injury.

When did I say it wasn't important for an attacking mid?

I'm saying you not understanding the importance of an attacking midfielder being good against the ball is bad, but you not being able to understand the importance of a right back being good against the ball is incomprehensibly stupid. Hope this helps.

Hard not to talk down to someone with such a lack of basic understanding that they can't grasp that a player must be good with the ball and also against it. Especially a right back... Players attack, but also defend. Not getting that for an attacking mid is bad but for a right back I don't even know how you can't get that.

Livramento was promised starting immediately, which a lot of big clubs wouldn't do but it is still a massive coup. VvD was only proven in the Scottish league. Alderweireld was only a loan. Can't remember Neimis exact situation but there usually is a reason. Also sometimes we can punt above our weight and make a superb signing, Livramento proves that. Sometimes we can massively cheap out too though...

Mane played in Europe though, smaller league but he did impress on a bigger scale. Pelle did score a tonne of goals at Feyenoord. He was highly rated, if a late bloomer. Also, people somewhat look back at Pelle with rose-tinted glasses, he was decent for us but nowhere near Tadic or Mane imo. Im not down on Lyanco because of one game, poor starts are perfectly normal. I'm down on him because he wasn't rated as good in the first place. If he returns to his torino form then he is still way below what we need even as a squad player. That's the problem with waiting for him to adapt, the point he was before the change wasn't high enough anyway. Also clubs like Sheffield United like to think of themselves as the most physical but they aren't, they are the most physical compared to their skill level. Players like Lukaku, Calvert-Lewin, Ronaldo, and even lower in the league players like Barnes/woods, maupay, and jimenez (and Adams for us) are just as good at using their strength to influence a CB, its just less noteworthy as they are also talented on the ball. If he is being smashed by Mcburnie it's a very bad sign, as Mcburnie is not good.

There will always be examples of poorly rated players working out if you go back far enough, Bertrand is arguably another. Unfortunately more likely he ends up like Carillo, hoedt, Lemina et al. who all weren't rated at their old club and all quickly showed why.

Why not both? Or is that a bit much for you to get your head round?

That's what the "regaining possession" stat is. He's second in the league after vvd.

Pelle, Tadic and Mane had been impressive before joining saints though and were highly rated. Don't know why people act like a players career begins the moment they sign for Saints...

It's not writing someone off to say they likely won't be very good. Writing them off is saying they have no hope and 0 chance of success, I'm just stating how I view the odds. Problem is, he might be a 4th choice CB but Vestergaard sure as hell wasn't. This means our general quality of squad has dramatically decreased in an area we were already having difficulties in. I'm also not saying this signing will relegate us, I am very positive about the team and think we will likely finish comfortably mid table but if we keep depleting the squad by selling first team staples and replacing them with dross we are only moving in one direction. I think terms like "made up your mind" are reductive. I assessed how good he was based on multiple things and decided that he is very likely to be a sharp downgrade on Vestergaard. He might not be, but he probably will be, and that is a problem. I will continue to assess his quality and change my mind if he does anything to disprove it but as it stands he has a long way to go to look anything other than a massive cheap out. Also not too "wound up", except by the guy calling me a dickhead out the blue, that was uncalled for.

Awful lot of overly optimistic nonsense in this thread. He is not a good player, he was not a good player for Torino (a much smaller team than us in a much easier league) and he isn't now. I'm not "writing him off" as I think he could improve and become a decent player but right now he is bollocks. Sorry to all the "wait and see, maybe he miraculously stopped being atrocious on his way over from Italy" lot. Also things like "he needs time to settle..." or "new country will take a learning curve", that only applies when the guy was good in the old country. He was dreadful for Torino having been in Italy for years, what's his excuse there? People deride our club for all sorts of reasons like "we aren't strong enough", "we lack leadership", "we don't have enough fight" or whatever. The truth of the matter is some of our players are poor and because we don't spend enough money that will continue to be the case. Right now, we have most likely signed our worst player in our squad and we signed him to replace a dependable if not perfect international CB. People should be furious but instead people reckon new means good and that he can't be judged until he has like 20 appearances. He likely won't get 20 appearances because he is so bad right now. Sorry but our whiney fanbase complain about so many reasonable things the club does but when we replace a Danish international CB with a player who would be laughed at at championship level somehow it is unacceptable to point that out. Because I disagree with you on the quality of a footballer? You don't know me at all, grow up.

Stephens out means we are down to two usable CB's as Lyanco is clearly bollocks. Whats the point in expanding "depth" when the person you have brought in to do so gets made to look hopeless by a championship side?

People saying we can't "write him off" after a single game, it's a single SAINTS game. He looked thoroughly shite for the rest of his career basically and Torino fans were ecstatic to see the back of him. I won't write him off but the "you don't know until you watch him play for us" crowd are 0/2 so far. Livramento was just as insane as people who were aware of his stats and reputation expected him to be. And, so far, Lyanco has been just as dogshit.

Great news! Thanks for coming on here and letting us know.

Unfortunately for some defenders defend the goal and attackers score the goals, and that's about all they can manage. Tried discussing the idea of CBs benefitting from having good distribution and strikers needing good positioning and was met by a similar level of bewildered response by some on here.

I love Ralph, but probably. Koeman is absolute class. My only apprehension is the team is built around Ralph and we would be causing a pretty big disruption for such a mercenary manager who will up and leave as soon as a bigger project becomes available.

Good example of why it is important for attacking players to be good against the ball, as is being discussed in another thread.

Greatest strength isn't only strength. And defending/pressing is a key part of being a winger/10/attacking mid in our system. It's why he is starting over Tella most likely.

I've always found that when you get to a certain age the real sign of maturity is knowing what makes you happy and doing it (as long as it's not hurting anyone else). If you enjoy video games play video games. If you like knitting then knit. If you like to argue on a football forum then do that. I don't personally play FIFA or Football manager or anything like that, but each to their own.

He was an insane prospect for Chelsea but he wasn't proven yet. Teams of Uniteds size have the money and influence to let players like him and many others go to smaller teams and then buy them after they become proven. It isn't prudent for them to try and sign/develop the best and brightest of the new class when they can just allow them all to get valuable experience and sign the best of the best after that.

Doesn't stop us from saying no though. Either way, bidding starts at £40m. Also it's not too reputable a source so not too worried just yet. Still, nice showing of his quality he is already being touted to a move to united after 5 games, quite a good signing I'd say 😉

Or, you know, the player himself and our manager... https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2020-03-21/feature-interview-moussa-djenepo-southampton-football-club-march-2020