Fitzhugh Fella

Mark, you talk about Lowe handling the PR well since his return - do you include his performance at the AGM in this and do you think going fishing and then skiiing in the same month missing 2 vital home matches good PR?

Dell Days, I am not knocking the trip to the final or the short jaunt into Europe. I enjoyed the Millennium (sp) experience as much as anyone but some on here use the fact that we beat a few also ran clubs inc Millwall, Wolves, Norwich and Watford to justify Lowe's ten years at the club. And Strachan screwed up the Final with his poor tactics, so he didn't come out of the whole run smelling of roses either. (I will admit the Spurs home tie was an exception to the above but it was a one off) Being the historian doesn't stop me expressing a view btw. I am also very careful with any criticisms in the books - you will not find anything anti Lowe in anything so far published or in the future - I have to concentrate on facts. For instance there is no mention of the pre-match march in my write up of the Swansea game or fans fighting fans v Doncaster. Perhaps one day a book about the decline of Saints could be written but I doubt it would get past the lawyers. Crouch and Lowe's legal eagles would be all over it not to mention the execs.

I think quite a few did - SISA, Chorley et al. No doubt some were preferring to deride them for so doing so. Just because we got to a Cup Final (with a bit of luck and home draws only to then flunk it) does not absolve all the rest of the crap, we have had to suffer under the deranged Lowe. Our European run wasn't exactly glorious or long-lived either, but Jonah still likes to hang his hat on it.

Absolutely spot on with this - Redknapp will get results but has to be allowed to do it his way (for good and bad) - he was hardly likely to have been able to do this while sharing an office with SCW.

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing but just because it exists shouldn't preclude us asking or wondering what life would have been like had Lowe accepted Moyes's demands to bring his backroom staff. Would we be where we are, lower even? I would hope and wager not. Gray was a cheap option both financially and morally. I remember holidaying in Devon that summer and spending a whole day fishing with my dad with most of the conversation being dominated by who would Lowe chose to be our new manager in our new stadium. There were lots of names being touted. Redknapp was interviewed but hastily discarded. Moyes was keen to come but all the time we both had a nagging dread that Lowe would take the option that would be the financially friendly route and employ Gray on a lower salary. Plus of course by then Lowe was already eyeing becoming more involved in the football side of things (he liked the continuity idea of a DoF role) and Gray would have been far more malleable than a grumpy, ambitious jock. No contest really. Part of me thinks just as Lowe never was going to appoint Redknapp, he was never going to take Moyes but wanted to show the fans he was casting his net. I remember an Echo sports journo at the time told me Gray was always going to get the nod and so it proved.

It's a fair point but I think Lowe could have worked something out. Moyes was an up and coming manager and I think if Lowe had been a bit freer with the cash a deal could have been done, but of course he did have a cheap option which is where he came unstuck.

Well, there has been quite a few but as I watched the Everton v Villa highlights and saw David Moyes on the touchline I remember how he nearly joined us in the summer of 2001. He had agreed to be our new manager, but Lowe did not want him to bring his back room staff and so the arrangement fell through and Lowe returned to the cheaper Stuart Gray option. For the sake of a few quid this decision was one of Lowe's worst if not the worst - although the Wigley and JP choices are pushing to be included.

You never learn Ponty

You put it in the box near enough the goal to cause potential damage but not near enough for the keeper to get it. Takes skill, accepted, but our lot haven't got a clue. Terry Paine could still take a better corner now and he's nearly 70. Still at least we try.

Trouble is when your 'keeper is up for a corner you should make sure the cross goes nowhere near their keeper. Rocket science it is not.

Ponty - please see my reply to Dell Days.

Sorry Dell Days - trying is not good enough. It should be taken as read that they try - put me in a red and white shirt and I would try as hard as I could (and I'd do it for nothing). We got to stop this "at least we gave it our all " mentalilty. We are ****e, the table doesn't lie and here we are patting ourselves on the back and making excuses that "at least it wasn't another lacklustre performance". That attitude will follow us all the way down to Div 2.

Well thats alright then - how many more times are we going to hear this "lads played well" horse****

Thanks for that - especially after a long day.

No it was a Lowe decision made at the start of the season that DMcG would be our main first choice striker throughout. Lowe can never admit to being wrong so we are where we are. One reason he should keep out of dressing room decisions.

Stu, I think you will find we've fallen away significantly in those areas too.

Yes it was a good read and your observation on Lowe spot on

Communications problems out there in the Gulf Phil?

Like Lowe gave Pearson a chance you mean?

Love that last sentence.

Don't worry I think this current crisis "is just a blip".

Absolutely Wes - however I don't think Mary would ever "envisage" herself in this position and would certainly never seek it. Some of the mocking reaction on here from respected posters such as FC are a little sad in my opinion.

From little acorns big oaks grow. Know what you are saying Stu (and there WAS over a 1000 there) but the message the march sent to me was, while there is a will there is a way.

Gary Chalk has just reminded me - I see you replied in the negative but there was one who died just days after receiving injuries at Watford in a reserve team match. George Frederick Mounsey died 3 November 1914. Although before the dates mentioned its the only recorded Saints death related to a match.

Have replied with a negative. One ex Saint a player, called Benson died at Highbury in 1916 but he was in Woolwich Arsenal's colours at the time.