um pahars

A coalition that accepts the principle of collective responsibility and all its implications. Methinks the coalition may soon start to unravel as this issue is fundamental to the Lib Dems (unless Cameron does a bit of a U turn)

Within reason would be my response, as I was never impressed when Blair used to deflect questions/attacks away by using this diversionary tactic. To be honest when people in any walk of life start blustering and try to turn things in to a "what would you do then?" I always think they aren't that assured of their own position and are looking to deflect the issue. Plus I would have thought an easy response would be that I would never have let us been put in that position. Unless Cleggy has got a decent excuse (and I mean something over and above the "I would have been a distraction") then I agree it is an extremely poor decision. Make shim look even weaker than I feared he was in the first place. I think this might be the first sign of real tension in the Coalition and I wouldn't be surprised if grassroots Lib Dems start to put pressure on the parliamentary party and the Coalition starts to unravel. General Election just before the Olympics!! I would wholeheartedly agree, not least as I'm still not 100% sure anyone really appreciates the full complexity of what has just happened and it is impossible to quantify just what impact this will have on UK PLC. The jingoistic tub thumping by some on the far right has been excrutiating (just like on here LOL) and that's coming from someone who also does not want to be a part of the EU in its current form and certainly not a EU where Central Banks/Bureaucrats can dictate and limit individual countries fiscal policy.

A bit like my old boss and former Taunton's student Clive Hollick then, BUT he still didn't award Goodwin with his outrageous and out of touch pension, that's one thing he can't be tarred with. On a seperate issue, would it be OK to be a tax dodging capitalist/Conservative, because I'm afraid the Champagne Socialists haven't got a monopoly on unethical and immoral behaviour of that kind (in fact I'd say they're probably massively outranked in the tax dodging stakes. Totally agree, losing the ability to set your own fiscal policy is outrageous, unrepresentative and undemocratic. There is no way we should have agreed to such a doctrine. I think you'll find many of the lefties are just as outraged by the idea of surrendering fiscal policy to an undemocratic Central Bank/Bureaucrat. You must have missed this earlier. Consider this: as Paul Mason has written, "by enshrining in national and international law the need for balanced budgets and near-zero structural deficits, the eurozone has outlawed expansionary fiscal policy". Read that last bit carefully. Left-wing governments of all hues will, in effect, be banned by this treaty. If the French or the German left returns to power in the near future (and both are in a good position to do so), it will be illegal for them to respond to the global economic catastrophe with anything but austerity. An economic stimulus is forbidden – because the treaty has buried Keynesianism. Cameron opposed the treaty because he feared the effect it would have on the City, which,after all, bankrolls his party. But just because he opposed the treaty doesn't mean the automatic response of the left should be to throw its weight behind it. I proudly marched against the invasion of Iraq; I wasn't deterred by the fact the BNP opposed it, too. François Hollande – the Scoialist candidate for the French presidency – has already spoken out against a treaty cooked up by Europe's overwhelmingly right-of-centre governments. If we're going to listen to European leaders, Hollande is a sounder bet than avowed right-wingers like Nicolas Sarkozy and Angela Merkel. After this stitch-up, the left really needs to have a long, hard think about its attitude to the EU as it is currently constructed. There's still a sense that any criticism of the EU puts you in the same box as swivel-eyed Ukip-ers who rant about gypsies in shire inns. But there's a powerful left critique that needs to be made.

Not the best analogy John. The banks (and other entities) acted like completely irresponsible shysters (particulalry some of those in the US) and whilst the FSA have accepted some of the blame for issues relating to RBS, they are also quite clear that the ultimate failure was down to the managements at the bank itself. I think it was Peston who said the FSA neither had the bark nor the bite needed. The FSA did not perform, but to use it as a scapegoat to excuse the damage perpetrated by the banks is somewhat passing the buck.

So you're still insisiting that Myners awarded Goodwin his pension then???? Funny how former Chairman McKillop (who was happy to slate Myners at the time) said they were contractually bound to pay the pension and that there was no question of any discretion being exercised in relation to his pension and no discretion was exercised by any RBS Director. The Myners/RBS row was over how much he said he knew, the faux outrage, the "not rewarding failure" rhetoric, Myners claiming the RBS Board had used their discretion to enhance the pay off, BUT certainly not being responsible for the awarding of the pension in the first place. That was the direct result of an existing contract that had to be honoured. Even after RBS was "nationalised" the new CEO led an internal investigation to see if the decision could be reversed, but found nothing could be done.

Of course it was, but that wouldn't have suited John's earlier tub thumping rant!!!!! Tearing up his contract would have been akin to a Banana Republic renationalising foreign assets & assuming state control and would not have been acceptable (despite many people's faux anger in the City and in Westminster). The FSA were found wanting, Brown and co. ccked up on many issues, but that's like moaning about the police and forgetting that the crooks are the real problem out there. (not that the Police shouldn't be taken to task if they are incompetent, but we shouldn't lose sight of the crooked actions of the financial sector and that they were the main cause of the meltdown in the first place).

Not technically right there John. Myners and the Government of the day were obviously involved in dealings with RBS around the time of it being effectively "nationalised", but they weren't in there setting remuneration, nor were they responsible for the previously agreed Director's contracts (and the rather generous nature of them). I personally would have liked them to take some people's advice (I think Cable was one of them) of holding back the payments and letting Goodwin sue them, but that's not the same as suggesting they were awarding the pay outs (plus I don't think they would have won in court and could only have hoped that Goodwin would be too embarrassed to contest it, although he seems not to give a shtit about anything apart from himself and probably would have fought it!!!!).

I've watched a few games on the continent (france, Germany, Italy, Spain, Lithuania, Czech Republic etc etc etc) and I alwyas thought their prices were much better value for money than waht we had been paying so 100 Euros a pop seems well out of kilter. Is this specific to the Real Madrid game, or is that their normal price??? One thing that's often struck me when watching La Liga is that there always appears to be loads of "Barca" or "Real" fans in the home end, so maybe this price is on honour of them!!!!!!!

Particularly when some of those at the left of the Political Spectrum is as horrified of the Merkozy proposals and the limits it will put on individual countries to pursue their own fiscal policy: Consider this: as Paul Mason has written, "by enshrining in national and international law the need for balanced budgets and near-zero structural deficits, the eurozone has outlawed expansionary fiscal policy". Read that last bit carefully. Left-wing governments of all hues will, in effect, be banned by this treaty. If the French or the German left returns to power in the near future (and both are in a good position to do so), it will be illegal for them to respond to the global economic catastrophe with anything but austerity. An economic stimulus is forbidden – because the treaty has buried Keynesianism. Cameron opposed the treaty because he feared the effect it would have on the City, which,after all, bankrolls his party. But just because he opposed the treaty doesn't mean the automatic response of the left should be to throw its weight behind it. I proudly marched against the invasion of Iraq; I wasn't deterred by the fact the BNP opposed it, too. François Hollande – the Scoialist candidate for the French presidency – has already spoken out against a treaty cooked up by Europe's overwhelmingly right-of-centre governments. If we're going to listen to European leaders, Hollande is a sounder bet than avowed right-wingers like Nicolas Sarkozy and Angela Merkel. After this stitch-up, the left really needs to have a long, hard think about its attitude to the EU as it is currently constructed. There's still a sense that any criticism of the EU puts you in the same box as swivel-eyed Ukip-ers who rant about gypsies in shire inns. But there's a powerful left critique that needs to be made. There are some decent arguments/debates to be had regarding democracy, representation, fiscal policy, trade, taxation etc, but sadly they do seem a tad lost on some on here who seem to be able to bang the same old drum LOL.

Talking about him in the pub after and most of us sympathising that it must be difficult not to play regularly and be expected to perform (a lack of real ressie games doesn't help) but he was shocking today and being honest I dont think I want to see him in goal again. Confidence shot to bits!!!!!

Contact Wessex Film and Sound Archive, they have footage.

Thank you Hypo, although I fear the truth will be lost on the multi user named one. Anyway, at least it was a bit of fun watching him squirm last night!!!

Sadly not Crabs. There's nothing worse than making announcements about your leaving in either a faux sense of outrage or in need of some sort of gratification. If you need to leave the board or are just bored, then leave, but save the drama queen announcements. You won't find me publicly flouncing off LOL (and certainly not coming back 2 days later!!!!).

Well feel free to post up the flouncing post. I might put you out of your misery in a minute and post up the PM I sent a few nice people on here when I left, but I think I'll dangle you along for a bit. HTH

Well feel free to post my hissy fit post then LOL (just don't fail me again). Now of course had Crabs just drifted off and PM'd a few acquaintances (as I did), then that would have been a better way of doing it.

TBH Crabs, I was a tad sad that you had announced that you were off to pastures new (or perhaps taking a break) as I quite enjoyed some of your posts (not the dull, repetitive Manjiesque ones mind), but I have to say flouncing off in such a public drama queen stylee was a tad OTT.

More of a bullshifter, Stan. HTH Where's my questions and where's my post

You never gave me my three questions the other week, so I'm not letting you get away without posting my hissy fit departure post. Come on Stanley, don't let me down Although I will settle for a Norman Tebbitt video clip.

That's not good news. Fonte in with a chance of a ban, Lambert carrying a knock, Lallana out of sorts and a pretty poor away record makes the derby a white knuckle event!!!!!

Which would mean you would easily be able to find such a post, so feel free to post it up here. I'm not sure who you were back then (was it Stanley or one of the other ones??), but I'm sure you were on the forum and so would be able to find it. Of course if you can't feel free to put a Winston Churchill video, or a Thathcer or Rhodesia clip up and I could use the text in an upcoming quiz. HTH

Well then your recollection is wrong (not that that would be a first LOL). Feel free to post up my hissy fit flouncy post not that you'll find one HTH

Feel free to find my hissy fit post and put it up here LOL. I think you'll find I just maturely drifted off for a sojourn with no drama queen posts announcing my hiatus. HTH

I thought you had had a hissy fit and upped and left??? There's only one thing worse than being a drama queen and announcing your departure in such a big girlee style, and that's then coming back a day or two later. If I was on the Board of this forum I would outlaw such nancy behaviour.

Before people post on the current crash and it's causes they should be made to watch this film!!!!

I do hope you're watching BBC2!!!!!!!!