um pahars

All I'm saying is that the amounts paid to players is not the driving force behind us having to pay higher prices at the turnstile and your points back that up, in that what is driving players salaries in many markets are owners pouring money in, or weak management (responding to many pressures) spending more than they earn. If clubs (including ourselves) really had to live by "normal" economic rules, then it might indeed force a more realistic stance with regards wages, but I'm not sure it would have any effect on the prices we're paying at the turnstiles. Ticket prices are solely dictated by what clubs think they can get away with charging and what we are prepared to pay (and it could be made worse in a "normal" trading position with income being even more important if clubs were no longer being subsidised by rich owners).

Would have to agree. I think not seeing Lallana for one meaningless game is a lot less important than him having a decent break over the summer.

Surely a wage cap would go against your normal free market principles. Additionally, we're being fleeced because that is what the market is prepared to pay. Simply free market economics. If the money wasn't going in the players pockets, then it would be going in the pockets of shareholders, it certainly wouldn't be distributed back to customers.

Or Oxo???? Friend of mine sorted out 25+ tickets (for a very reasonable £5 for adults and £2.50 for kids) so think I will be popping along. Hats off to some decent pricing.

Market forces. Don't think it's value for money then don't go. Simples.

As I said in my first post, many other teams do sing it, but Portsmuff sung it for a few seasons beofre we latched on to it.

Any self respecting Saints fan has to surely remember the Hildene Angel advert and the strategically placed H and A up The Dell. As for the thread in point on the Ugly Inside, I thought the issue was more to do with matchday programmes and ditching the long standing Cedar Press and switching to Portsmuff based printers Bishops.

Which is why I can never understand why we try to sing "Southampton Till I Die". I'm sure others sing it as well, but I always associate that shtty ditty with Portsmuff as they definitely knocked it out before us.

Indeed, and I also like: "Before you embark on revenge, you should dig two graves" Confucius (I think)

How old are you Delldays???? 43 now and certainly not sleeping as well as I used to (despite my life being a lot less hectic & feeling rather mellow and calm). Also sure I'm needing a pi65 more often during the night as well. Put it down to middle age fella.

I think most people would accept that there are some differences between Holmes and Bart, particularly the peculiar position of being 2nd choice goalkeeper. Although injured for a period, I think Bart has shown himself to be slightly more robust than Holmes and although he hasn't actually featured in many games I do think there is a difference between being on the bench at St Mary's and being on the bench of the treatment room of Staplewood.

I'm not sure a fit Lee Holmes would have turned that debacle of a season around!!!

Then you're in the world of Winston Bogarde. Of course, the difference might be that NA thinks Holmes has has a role to play, so this is all academic (but my opinion is he won't offer us anything next year due to not being up to scrtach and not being able to stay fit - would love to be proved wrong). As Phil and yourself say, if the player doesn't want to move on then there's nothing that can be done. Even freezing him out didn't seem to affect Bogarde (although the £40k a week pay cheque probably soothed his bruised ego). Some might argue it shows a lack of ambiton, being happy to take the money and not feature, whilst others could quite rightly say it would be a lot of money to turn down if there was no guarantee of earning the same elsewhere. Certainly don't begrudge Holmes for sticking it out, let's hope he sticks it out and turns in some performances.

Balance up the cost of perhaps a compromise agreement where we settle early, but don't pay him everything he is due Vs keeping him and getting the odd game out of him (as nice as he may be, I'm always wary of having people around who are only going through the motions - that said, NA involved towards the end, so ultimately it's his shout, just I don't rate him as someone who will contribute to any potential promotion push). If he's willing to forego part of his last year, then I'd ship him out, freeing up a squad place for a youngster and only having players involved who really will contribute and add value.

As a few others have said, get rid. Not good enough + injury prone = deadwood.

Have to say that I'm never impressed with this line of argument. Where is 650 in the context of number of people earning these type of salaries across the UK????? Well when the 50% tax rate came in for people earning around the Prime minister's salary, it was said to affect 300,000 people. In that context the 650 doesn't seem too perverse, particularly given the sums of money involved in the NHS, the number of employees, its role and importance in society etc etc etc. (Put it this way, I've worked for medium sized companies before where 20+ people were on these wages - and they weren't a 30th the size of the NHS!!!!!!! Additionally, how many employees at Saints earn more than the Prime Minister???????).

I think 1 Blackpool player that day made more than 20 starts in the league, with the majority starting very, very few. We had 6 players who started more than 20 times last season. I don't think there can be much doubt as to who fielded the weaker team (in relative terms), rendering any realistic comparisons nigh on impossible.

I'm not sure I would have been happy if I was a Woolwich Arsenal supporter 100 years ago, but as I said I think there are/were a couple of differences. Firstly, Woolwich Arsenal had something like 20 years of history (Wimbledon had over 100 years of history). Secondly, the move to Milton Keynes was to an entireoly different city/town (wth a fair few extra miles on the clock as well-50/60 miles vs 10 miles). Finally to me it's all about how the club perceives itself and MK Dons consider themselves to be a new club formed in 2004 and have renounced all claims on Wimbledon's earlier history and records (inc the FA Cup win), whilst Arsenal still trace themselves back to their Woolwich days and look at the move to Highbury as a relocation not a new formation.

One word: Lawrie McMenemy. Certainly seemed to be able to massage the egos of a number of "egos" and "stars" and yet in the meantime make it perfectly clear that he was the Boss and deliver the results. I personally think that team spirit, togetherness and having everyone pulling in the same direction is worth much more than one or two skillful egos ruling the roost (Fergie & what he has achieved vs the Man City approach).

I think the difference might be that Milton Keynes never actually worked their way up the leagues!!!! I do not see them as Wimbledon in any shape or form and given the number of ex Wimbledon players who turned out to watch AFC Wimbledons play off in midweek, then I don't think many others do either!!! Your analogy with Arsenal might have some merits, but I would counter that it happened almost 100 years ago (when clubs didn't have as much of legacy), the journey was less than 10 miles and it was still within the same city.

From the list above, only something like 7 players started more than 20 league games for them last season. Coincidentally, 7 new players (2 from Prem clubs and 2 from NPC clubs) brought in after promotion played more than 20 games. Norwich's team was almost as new as it was old!!! Leeds seemed to be a bit more aggressive with regards signing new players following promotion, bringing in loads of new faces, with 6 of them (2 from Prem clubs, 3 from NPC clubs + Schmeicel) playing in more than 20 League games. Both teams added to their squad, a number made significant contributions and the majority were not lower league signings, but were signed from NPC or Prem clubs.

IMHO I'd actually say it was one of his strongest decisions, whereby he made it quite clear who was in charge and no one was bigger than the manager. I think there will always be some players who dont' respond to the arm around the shoulder approach and so you are left with no alternative but ship them out. And fair play to Cortese for backing his manager on tghe decision.

Lower League signings in the main?????? Leeds signed 4 players from Premier League clubs (and had a further 12 in on loan from premiership sides over the season) They also signed 5 players from Nationwide Clubs. The 3 players they signed from "Lower League Teams" were Schmeicel (previously at Notts County due to their fake sheikh's ££££'s), Paynter (last season's Mackail-Smith) and Sam (who played for Charlton in the NPC). Norwich brought in players from Everton, Wolves, Rangers, Coventry & West Brom and loaned in 6 players from the Premiership (although they also bought from Colchester, Gillingham, Brighton and MK Dons). That would suggest that in the main they both brought in players from Clubs in the division above, with a number from their fellow NPC clubs and the minority from "lower league clubs".

I think the step up to the NPC isn't that big (as The9 says I reckon we could hold our own mid table, no problem), but as you say the step up to the top six (and definitely the top two!!!) is pretty big. Norwich and Leeds reinforced their squads well and built on the confidence of promotion and the winning mentality they brought with them and I think we will need to do the same.

One caveat might be that Bournemuff aren't that good, (although Huddersfield are pretty useful), but I would agree with you that I also think the step up to the Championship will be pretty big.