um pahars

I remember being really annoyed when I found out my pension pot had shares in the very same company that was happy to p155 it up the wall on jollies, around the world training courses and profligacy & salaries you would never see in the Public Sector.

For some of my training days we were regularly flown up to Leeds (BA at over £200, maybe even £300), put up in decent hotels (£100+ a night), taxis to and from (£40), slap up meals each night (£30 a night), allowed a bit of booze (£10), then treated to slap up buffets and snacks during the day (all of which cost a fortune). Throw in the actual cost of the training and you could have built a small school on the amount we used to pay (we never really learnt much either). And we certainly didn't do this on our days off!!!!!!! Compared to what I've seen in the Public Sector, I certainly which one I think was more profligate and watseful.

I think the Gormless Gove has already started to back pedal with his office now saying he didn't actually mean that he wanted parents in to help (despite when asked on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show on Sunday whether he was suggesting that parents should go in to take lessons on Thursday, he said: "Well, parents going in to help, certainly.").

I don't think anyone is immune from needing a CRB check (maybe the Queen is) and I'm sure even vicars and priests need to be CRB checked if they come in to contact with youngsters or vulnerable adults in their parish (but of course that CRB check will not satisfy going to teach in schools). And sadly as some horrific cases have highlighted in recent years, being a respected member of the community is no guarantee.

Of course you can, but that would make you either an idiot for suggesting they are necessary in the first place, or foolish for not requiring them on an ad hoc basis. Not believing in the veracity or usefulness of CRB checks is a point of view that I can see has a some resonance about it, but the line of needing them for everyone, except when they don't need them, is somewhat disjointed and illogical.

If someone had offered up Go Ape as a perk in my last few jobs, then they would have been laughed out of the office. A day at Go Ape is not a perk, unless it was one of their Mediterranean offices!!!!!!!!! I think the biggest perk I have had in 7 years of teaching was a free BBQ, a pen and a day out on a treasure hunt around the New Forest. I reckon if you added up all the perks for the whole school over the last year, then it wouldn't even come to one of our long lunches back in the good ole days.

The usefulness and veracity of CRB checks is a whole different argument, but you can't on one hand demand everyone to go jumping through hoops because you believe in the robustness of them, only to waive them on an ad hoc basis (as Gove is now bumbling about). (On balance I think the CRB process is worthwhile, but that's not to say it doesn't have it's limitations or faults).

Fred & Rose West??? Maxine Carr & Ian Huntley??? Gove really does just seem to be making it up as he goes along if he thinks it will be OK just to draft parents in to help out (It's a tad more complex than that Mr Gove LOL).

But there's a CRB check and there's a CRB check. I was under the impression that you have to hold a separate CRB check for each different activity/role. When I started doing some cricket work with Colts (umpiring and coaching), I thought I would be OK as already held an enhanced CRB through school, but had to reapply for a "cricket" CRB!!!!!!

The thing is that I wouldn't call them perks, I would call them an integral part of the remuneration package. Perks would be the jolly **** ups I used to go on at Cowes, Wimbledon, Twickenham, Reading Festival, Glyndebourne, Goodwood, Salisbury, the County Ground, Edgbaston, Henley, The Oval, Ibiza Sales Conference, St Mary's, etc etc etc. The overwhelming majority of these were taken during the working week and I very much doubt any of them were economically productive from my side, nor did they provide and real value for money. I was already earning a stack and was happy with my lot, these jolly boys outings (all paid for by the company) were just OTT jollys.

My response would be (and although it is personal, there are a number of teachers similar to my background) : I left a 70k job in London and retrained to be a teacher a few years back. I had always wanted to teach but somehow got sidetracked for 15 years by going in to the Accountancy & Media field. I then happily accpeted a massive pay drop knowing that this would rise quite quickly to about £34k in 4/5 years, there would be a generous pension paid at the end and also the 12/13 weeks a year holiday were a huge benefit in kind. On a pro rata basis, I'm still down on the £££££'s front, but I'm much happier in my job, contributing more to society and hoepfully making a real change in many people's lives. For someone with my qualifications (Degree, Masters, Accountancy qualification), although the basic salary is low for what I could be earning, the pension along with the days off is a key factor in sticking at it (a noble and honourable profession doesn't pay the mortgage). Change any of these (as Gove is suggetsing via the pensions & you are asking re holidays) and I don't think I would stick around as a teacher and without blowing my trumpet (and the trumpet of others like me in the teaching profession) I think this would be a loss. I think you can always have a race to the bottom, but ultimatley there will be a price.

I was going to mention Dave Armstrong as being a hit, but thought against it as the fee at the time was decent by the standards of the day (£650,000??? and I'm sure it was a record for us). That said, I don't remember him having that much of a reputation when he arrived after being a one club man with Boro, but he certainly did the business down here and was one of my favourite players of that era.

Flops,or at least under achievers who failed to live up to the hype, the transfer fee or just took the ****: Charlie George Speedie & Dixon Mark Hughes Cherednik & Gotsmanov Alan McCloughlin Perry Groves David Howells Van Gobbel Beresford Ripley Delgado Then too many to mention in recent years!!! Those who surprised me or came with low(ish) profiles: Phil Boyer Ivan Golac Mark Wright Glen Cockerill Micky Evans Ostenstad Kevin Davies Pahars Beattie Msrsden Claus

All rather reasonable to me and have to say your reply regarding the sell outs in those first seasons at St Mary's spot on. We did sell out for many games, but very often as you say we only just about sold out (certainly not weeks in advance). As you say, apart from a few high profile games, it was always possible to get a ticket, you just had to plan ahead and there were no massive lock outs or long lists of those dying to get season tickets. I'm sure for some games we could get a gate of 40,000 and perhaps with hindsight a 36,000 stadium might have been better (that said I only thought we'd average 26,000ish at SMS & thought Stoneham would have been a good size!!!!). But I do think regular gates of 40,000 are beyond us and additionally given that SMS is perhaps only a few thousand shy of what we could pull in on a regular basis, then finances will preculde any minor uplift in capcity.

Was just throwing it in as a possible motive. Wouldn't have thought the cost would be that high, but perhaps they also thought the demand (and income) wouldn't be that high either. What sort of numbers do you think we would sell??? So maybe a reason to get ahead of the General Sale and get a membership, but that's probably the only one (unless we have a really successful season) as I don't really see a problem getting tickets for other away games (Brighton???) and certainly not home games.

It's the BUR derby!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it worth the hassle and cost??? Perhaps they just don't think the take up would be that great as most people will be able to get a home ticket (think season ticket take up will be fairly low and we won't be selling out) and the really decent away tickets (Portsmuff) will all be snapped up by season ticket holders.

Not sure what part Torquay played in the fixing/agreeing of those prices, but a tad on the steep side!!!! Am I right in thinking they will be £17 when you add on the booking fee????

Totally agree. Not sure how people can say he wasn't that bad and almost saved us when he was up to his neck with a few others who were responsible of putting us in such a dreadful position.

The issue with me wasn't stepping in and replacing Poortvliet (as you say I don't think anyone would have said no - apart from Wigley who said no, then yes), but instead how Poortvliet described how Wotte acted in the early days and how he felt it undermined him.

Within reason, would be my reply to that. I certainly agree that for the majority of players, managers should use their skills to cajole, convince or kick the best out of them, but I do think there will always be a small minority who are just best given the cold shoulder as no amount of man management skills will win them round.

At first I felt a bit sorry for him as the whole Poortvliet/Wotte/Lowe set up was quite clearly wrong from the very start. However, reading Poortvliet's comments on how he felt stabbed in the back and betrayed/undermined meant that the little sympathy I had for him quickly vanished as he came out of that looking very poor indeed.

And back to the flags, have to say I'm not keen on the "cartoon" style ones and although Gecko has produced some quality stuff in the past (and is a top bloke), I personally don't like his or Scudamore's styles. Think I'd go with the same style as the opnes they have on the Kop (whatever font/style that is called).

Me too. I remember a 20 minute conversation with Exit2 on the Sunday?? and we never managed more than one or two words as we just constantly laughing about it. Someone find that thread, black humour at its best.

A very interesting comparison. Many have attacked the "profligate" Public Sector and held up cases of waste in order to lambast them and I'm sure you could go digging for the many cost overruns on a number of defense projects and hold them up in a comparable fashion. But the undelrying tenet is as you and others have said, you can't expect the same for less (although I accept any waste needs to be eradicated) and eventually there will have to be a substantive change in the service on offer. In this instance we simply cannot afford to be flexing our muscle in support of NATO/UN/USA. Defence spending needs to be trimmed, but at the same time we have to accept that the role we play and our capabilities will have to be trimmed as well.