um pahars

We used to have a role call during the game (done outside the ground, on the net etc) and we regularly had over 75% signing up. It was a comprehensive, tight and well organised boycott. At many games we had over 2,000 turning up to take part in protests instead of going to the game (with another couple of thousand sending their apologies from home - we used to check they weren't at the game). Additionally, we had sent all the season tickets to the Club and those involved were informed they were no longer allowed to buy tickets individually as a redress by the Club. 21k would be a fair average for us in the Championship at that time (recently relegated, team being dismantled), I'll take that (still ****es on your current "crowds" LOL). I'll also take the short term rise to 24,000+ was a combination of relief and the boycotters returning.

But he never had to build something from scratch or reinvent the wheel. The infrastructure was already there and there were some decent people still in situ. Plus of course he brought others in to help him, inc AO.

Sorry Ron, but I find the idea that Cortese has picked up Chairman Lowe's little red book and is using it to run the Club as somewhat insulting to Cortese. The basic principles of running a football club aren't rocket science, it only seems to get hard work when you either get the big appointments wrong or you attempt to go off piste and think you know more than you do. (plus talking to AO in the past, he and others weren't impressed by what they found when they rocked up - not that they didn't create or leave their own problems, just highlighting that he, and they, weren't enamoured by what the little red book was delivering and do were unlikely to replicate it).

That reminds me. We have an inter club friendly on Sunday. Older players v younger players but struggling to see if any of the lads are interested. Plus presentation night on sat 10th sept but haven't heard if any of your lads team are coming along!!

'twas our honeymoon so we pushed the boat out and did something different!!! Next year will be back Tina months flashpacking somewhere. I fancy 5 weeks trekking from Finland down to Greek islands taking in Eastern Europe and then a week or so on a beach!!! First time we've cruised and it was fabulous, just not sure I could justify the cost. For 12 days on QE we could have spent 5 weeks in SE Asia.

Queen Elizabeth around the Med. Rome, Florence, monte Carlo, Barcelona and Gib. Very impressive boat and some fab memories (got a few great perks courtesy of Exit2 off here who greased some palms!!!). Where did you go???

In a word, no.

I presume Phil means Andy Oldknow. To be honest what Cortese is doing (and doing well) is nothing different from many clubs up and down the country and to trying and suggest he is actually following Lowe's path is disengenuous IMHO. Investing in youth (for use in first team and/or providing an income), appointing the right manager, supporting him in the transfer market and being successful are not new ideas and certainly not Lowe's blueprint. New ideas that Lowe tried would include appointing a Rugby Coach and a self publicist of kiddies football as Football Manager & Assistant designate and asking them to undermine the current incumbents.

It' shis dad's name and think he was called Harry junior or little Harry which then stuck.

Oh I agree that he and others at NOTW and NI must have known he was complicit in the underhand methods, but at that time the general consensus outside of Wapping (and outside of Watson's office) was that he was not a part of the scandal and so he was unlikely to blow the whistle. Whereas Mulcaire and Goodman, having been fired, were much more likely to blab unless someone made it worth their while to keep schtum.

No they didn't. I helped organise the boycotts and personally recieved 2,500 season ticket renewal forms completed (all bar the money details) but sent to our protest group, and not to the Club for processing. On top of that we would regularly attract hundreds for protests outside the ground (who can forget the drawing of the curtains). The main reason for the drop in attendances was due to the organised boycotts, stay aways and protests. Once Lowe had left the group announced that everyone should return to St Mary's. Game before Lowe left: 18,000 Game after Lowe left: 27,000 (dwindling to 24,00 after that) HTH (There were of course those who protested inside the stadium, their perogative as they just found it impossible to do without thedir Saints fix)

Spot on. And re-reading those Clifford tweets just reminds me how fecking mental it all became and how mad Lowe was post the Cup Final. I remember people chastising me because I went from thinking Lowe wasn't all bad to thinking he had lost it big time (I think GM used to bring up a post from 2000'ish where I praised Lowe and tried to use it as a stick to beat me with, whereas I didn't see any problem judging people by their merits and not thinking they were either always brilliant or always terrible). Is there something about football that makes people become egotistical maniacs or does it only attract those kind of people in the first place and it takes some time for their true colours to show???? The vision that Clifford sets out is absolutely stark raving mentalism of the highest order and to me a clear indication that Lowe had lost it by that point (forget the Total Voetball that followed it).

To me there is no doubt that the payments to Mulcaire and Goodman were an attempt to buy their silence (you don't pay off those you have sacked for gross misconduct and who are in prison, nor do you keep paying their solictor's bills!!!) and you may have a point that the longevity of the payments may also be an attempt to keep Coulson under their wing and to ensure his silence/co-operation. However, at the time Coulson was still blame free and the insinuation was that his resignation was that he was doing the honourable thing, not that he was complicit, so he was unlikely to blab and ruin his own reputation.

I am now having flashbacks of that lanky Hungarian Zoltan Litpak or whatever his name was and remembering everyone raving about him (mainly because he was tall!!!!).

Very true and if you wanted an anecdote then yesterday was perfect. I halved my salary switching from accountancy (which included commuting to London) to teaching (local) and yesterday bumped in to a couple of colleagues on the train back from London. They looked terrible, all stressed and moaning. I had just come back off a cruise, still had two weeks of my holidays left and was coming back from watching the 5th day at The Oval. Much happier niw, even though I'm £40k lighter in the pocket.

Just one or two of the players who were for Hoddle coming back will suffice. As for how did I know the players, then some on here must be aware, but I'll send you a PM as don't want to put all the stuff up here.

To be fair as someone else has said, I think there is a difference between income and a severance payment. The severance payment was "earned/activated" at the termination of his contract and it was solely the mechanics of payment which overlapped with his employment by the Conservatives (that said, I do think given the nature and position of his previous and future employers, then things should have been much cleaner and clearer). I would be more interested in the considerable benefits in kind (car, private health insurance etc) that then dragged on to overlap with his employment at Conservative Central Office. These are definite payments that ensure there is still a "financial relationship" between Coulson and NI. (Plus all the other denials or negative answers about being in receipt of monies/benefits in kind make it a rather murky story and a serious misjudgement by a number of people).

Who??? Feel free to mention some names. Let's say I was friendly with quite a few back then, and although those who were around in 2000/1 appreciated a lot of what Hoddle did, there was still much anger and animosity still being held in 2004 over the way he shot off to South Africa and then straight up to N17. So which players wanted Hoddle back then?

I don't think Woodward was on the scene before Luggy rocked up in early 2004. I thought things started to hot up early in the follwoing season when he appeared in the Director's Box at Villa Park. Your version could have some truth in it if you perhaps swapped Wigley for Sturrock, as Sturrock was soon axed and Wigley shoe-horned in to a job he didn't want 6 months earlier.

We certainly did have Cheryl Calder as vision coach and her smarter version of Bash-A-Mole (being a tad facetious there). For me it wasn't so much about the money (although I concede it certainly wasn't a priority and should have been focussed elsewhere), but instead it was the fact that it wasted that vital first season down when we should have been looking to bounce back, but instead we were embroilled in an internecine battle that now turns out to be even more farcial than I feared at the time.

Would be interesting to find out if you are/were in a minority, as I have to say I would have had no problems with SCW and others coming in to the Club to introduce some perfomance coaching etc in to the set up. Other Clubs did something similar and prospered, so would have been open to bringing in some fresh ideas. However, as you say the way it was implemented, the overall vision, the timing and the protasgonists involved meant it was always likely to be one gigantic clusterfeck.

I agree with the practice regarding compromise agreements and the fact that payments are often staggered over future months (and then often mitigated when the individual finds new employment). So that in itself is a bit of a non story. However, the part that makes it interesting are the various denials given by individuals (Senior Conservative Officials and News International Officials) over the last few years, including one or two to the Select Committee that payments weren't being made. Trying to hide something, ignorant & ill informed or not doing their homework (i.e. why wasn't all this found out during security vetting). The other part I was interested in is how after honourably resigning and taking the flak for underhand behaviour during his tenure as Editor, Coulson then walks away with a huge pay off. Even Andrew Neil was under the impression he wouldn't have got much, but then again you often find that when Senior Execuitves and Directors get the boot, they still pocket their handsome pay offs, even if they've been found wanting!!

How about this start has surprised even Adkins and Cortese and they're having a rethink about whether to spend some money now to capitalise on this great start. Originally happy with consolidating and then pushing on next year or year after, but having a rethink to see if they should look to do it quicker????? Early days I know, but we have come out flying.

You're not wrong there. I have always thought policing down here has always been on the "light touch" side compared to visits to London, Liverpool, Leeds etc. Part of me thinks this isn't a bad thing as sometimes there is no need for the heavy handed approach of some forces, but they do need to be able to be flexible and adapt to each game and within each game and ramp up the robustness of their policing when required.

I think the Wall are owned by Chestnut Hill Ventures