um pahars

Then you're in the world of Winston Bogarde. Of course, the difference might be that NA thinks Holmes has has a role to play, so this is all academic (but my opinion is he won't offer us anything next year due to not being up to scrtach and not being able to stay fit - would love to be proved wrong). As Phil and yourself say, if the player doesn't want to move on then there's nothing that can be done. Even freezing him out didn't seem to affect Bogarde (although the £40k a week pay cheque probably soothed his bruised ego). Some might argue it shows a lack of ambiton, being happy to take the money and not feature, whilst others could quite rightly say it would be a lot of money to turn down if there was no guarantee of earning the same elsewhere. Certainly don't begrudge Holmes for sticking it out, let's hope he sticks it out and turns in some performances.

Balance up the cost of perhaps a compromise agreement where we settle early, but don't pay him everything he is due Vs keeping him and getting the odd game out of him (as nice as he may be, I'm always wary of having people around who are only going through the motions - that said, NA involved towards the end, so ultimately it's his shout, just I don't rate him as someone who will contribute to any potential promotion push). If he's willing to forego part of his last year, then I'd ship him out, freeing up a squad place for a youngster and only having players involved who really will contribute and add value.

As a few others have said, get rid. Not good enough + injury prone = deadwood.

Have to say that I'm never impressed with this line of argument. Where is 650 in the context of number of people earning these type of salaries across the UK????? Well when the 50% tax rate came in for people earning around the Prime minister's salary, it was said to affect 300,000 people. In that context the 650 doesn't seem too perverse, particularly given the sums of money involved in the NHS, the number of employees, its role and importance in society etc etc etc. (Put it this way, I've worked for medium sized companies before where 20+ people were on these wages - and they weren't a 30th the size of the NHS!!!!!!! Additionally, how many employees at Saints earn more than the Prime Minister???????).

I think 1 Blackpool player that day made more than 20 starts in the league, with the majority starting very, very few. We had 6 players who started more than 20 times last season. I don't think there can be much doubt as to who fielded the weaker team (in relative terms), rendering any realistic comparisons nigh on impossible.

I'm not sure I would have been happy if I was a Woolwich Arsenal supporter 100 years ago, but as I said I think there are/were a couple of differences. Firstly, Woolwich Arsenal had something like 20 years of history (Wimbledon had over 100 years of history). Secondly, the move to Milton Keynes was to an entireoly different city/town (wth a fair few extra miles on the clock as well-50/60 miles vs 10 miles). Finally to me it's all about how the club perceives itself and MK Dons consider themselves to be a new club formed in 2004 and have renounced all claims on Wimbledon's earlier history and records (inc the FA Cup win), whilst Arsenal still trace themselves back to their Woolwich days and look at the move to Highbury as a relocation not a new formation.

One word: Lawrie McMenemy. Certainly seemed to be able to massage the egos of a number of "egos" and "stars" and yet in the meantime make it perfectly clear that he was the Boss and deliver the results. I personally think that team spirit, togetherness and having everyone pulling in the same direction is worth much more than one or two skillful egos ruling the roost (Fergie & what he has achieved vs the Man City approach).

I think the difference might be that Milton Keynes never actually worked their way up the leagues!!!! I do not see them as Wimbledon in any shape or form and given the number of ex Wimbledon players who turned out to watch AFC Wimbledons play off in midweek, then I don't think many others do either!!! Your analogy with Arsenal might have some merits, but I would counter that it happened almost 100 years ago (when clubs didn't have as much of legacy), the journey was less than 10 miles and it was still within the same city.

From the list above, only something like 7 players started more than 20 league games for them last season. Coincidentally, 7 new players (2 from Prem clubs and 2 from NPC clubs) brought in after promotion played more than 20 games. Norwich's team was almost as new as it was old!!! Leeds seemed to be a bit more aggressive with regards signing new players following promotion, bringing in loads of new faces, with 6 of them (2 from Prem clubs, 3 from NPC clubs + Schmeicel) playing in more than 20 League games. Both teams added to their squad, a number made significant contributions and the majority were not lower league signings, but were signed from NPC or Prem clubs.

IMHO I'd actually say it was one of his strongest decisions, whereby he made it quite clear who was in charge and no one was bigger than the manager. I think there will always be some players who dont' respond to the arm around the shoulder approach and so you are left with no alternative but ship them out. And fair play to Cortese for backing his manager on tghe decision.

Lower League signings in the main?????? Leeds signed 4 players from Premier League clubs (and had a further 12 in on loan from premiership sides over the season) They also signed 5 players from Nationwide Clubs. The 3 players they signed from "Lower League Teams" were Schmeicel (previously at Notts County due to their fake sheikh's ££££'s), Paynter (last season's Mackail-Smith) and Sam (who played for Charlton in the NPC). Norwich brought in players from Everton, Wolves, Rangers, Coventry & West Brom and loaned in 6 players from the Premiership (although they also bought from Colchester, Gillingham, Brighton and MK Dons). That would suggest that in the main they both brought in players from Clubs in the division above, with a number from their fellow NPC clubs and the minority from "lower league clubs".

I think the step up to the NPC isn't that big (as The9 says I reckon we could hold our own mid table, no problem), but as you say the step up to the top six (and definitely the top two!!!) is pretty big. Norwich and Leeds reinforced their squads well and built on the confidence of promotion and the winning mentality they brought with them and I think we will need to do the same.

One caveat might be that Bournemuff aren't that good, (although Huddersfield are pretty useful), but I would agree with you that I also think the step up to the Championship will be pretty big.

Something like half of the 16 players who played more than 15 games for them this season were new in and although they didn't sign any big superstars (not that I think we are going to or should), they did obviously buy well and perhaps more importantly they slotted them in well. I think we might need to do something similar as although we have a decent nucleus of players, if we're going to come close to emulating Norwich then I think we may have to be ruthless and augment the decent players with a fair few new signings.

Not sure I'd agree with the first part of your statement, as although we are blessed with two quality wide players and he wouldn't get a look in, I'm not so sure that extends to the rest of the first team (and there's no point using Norwich as an example as i think the majority of the side that beat Portsmuff recently were signed after they were promoted to the Championship). Just because we're blessed with two great players and a premiership player wouldn't get a look in, it doesn't automatically follow that we have equivalent quality elsehwere. I would be very surprised if we didn't see a number of additions over the summer, in much the same way that Norwich added to their promotion team.

Only a handful do the hard work, the rest are voted in as Stewards, most due to their contributions to rowing (and Henley in particular). I don't think you'll find Redgrave in an illuminous orange jacket marshalling the Leander Club away fans!!!

I can tell you for a fact that he never has to pay at The Wingfield, nor Henley (where he is a Steward I believe), nor in fact at any rowing event organised by BR. HTH

In which case People are going to confuse you and I, as the Tux has just come out of the cupboard!!!!! (although of course I'm the younger, better looking penguin) x x

I wouldn't call Rupert Lowe or Charlie Sale legends!!!!!!!!!

Given the huge smile at the end of the game and how pleased he looked, then I reckon he was over the moon at the team achieving promotion and certainly didn't seem at all bitter. I'm sure in his Echo column he'll be bigging us up (as he has done for most of the season).

Would you have put us and Hudders down to win at Brighton away?????

Spot on Granty. When I used to work at Meridian, I'd make up an excuse to go and visit the Newsroom and they would get them through about an hour before on the Newsfeed, embargoed until the release time. They would be on any of the rolling terminals and I'd sneak a peak and post a few up on the net (proper nawty stuff!!!).

That really is some going and I think it was made all the more harder given the fact we were always playing catch up (due to games in hand) which I think increased the pressure on us. Throw in a mini injury crisis and it makes it an even better achievement. In the late Jan to March period we weren't playing at our best, but still managed to grind out some points, before performances picked up again. Was the 10 games in 5 weeks a blessing in the end???? Winning 9 of them certainly makes it look as though we benefitted and once we were on a roll (Rochdale excepted) we seemed capable of beating anyone.

The only person who should be embarrassed should be you with your constant need of self gratification and worthiness, coupled with an obvious insecurity issue that needs to be fed by attempting to show up others. How any Saints fan can be embarrassed at seeing their Club promoted and seeing such joyous scenes over the weekend is beyond me. At this moment in time I would imagine that anyone who blew a gasket over the Wallsall loss is feeling something much more positive and joyous, and is not even contemplating being embarrassed. The overwhelming majority of the initial responses on this thread are from passionate supporters who were obviously frustrated at losing to a team fighting relegation, whilst we were challenging for promotion. Throw in the immediacy and the knee jerkiness of the interweb and it should be no surprise that people let off steam on threads like these. It is not a measure of their support, indeed I would say their passionate outbursts show how much this Club means to them. Methinks you really need to give it a rest with this approach and instead wallow in the delight and happiness of promotion (or see a shrink). HTH

Totally anecdotal, but I reckon in excess of 50% of today's attendees weren't regulars at St Mary's (judging by who I went with, people who I didn't recognise sat around us, number of families & kids) which all bodes well for the future as hopefully a few have gone home interested in coming on a regular basis. Nice kickabout, some "legends", some not so legendary!!!!! and a nice gesture to reward the regulars and a decent initiative to attract others to SMS.