Dman

I feel for Bree - you're completely right and he needs to move on, but I do feel sorry for him. He probably didn't expect, much like anyone, that Luton would go up. He probably took a gamble that coming to us might be his only chance to play PL football. Hopefully he picks up a decent move

I've said a few times now - almost certain the thought process behind Holgate is to play him RB

And I think this is where our success of failure will lie. At this point, I think we simply have to keep Che and then one of Sulemana or Tella. With the obvious replacement in Piroe now gone, I don't think its feasible to replace Che with someone good enough to score 15-20 goals to take us up, this late in the window.

You clearly have no idea of the actual situation. He didn't 'give up'. He was out of contract post covid break and didn't sign a new one for 8 games to see through the season. Huge difference in the 2.

Personally, I think keeping Che and then 1 of Tella or Sulamana is exciting and a bit of a coup. Selling all 3, which granted is likely, will be a big concern. Downes is a fantastic signing at this level, imo.

which is fine, so long as we don't sell Sulamana as well.. imo.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by both Fraser and Holgate. What this does allow us to do, is have a good stab at promotion and then look to add more quality when we have a wider network of quality to buy from.

Hugely debatable comment given we have no suitable number 9's other than Che. But its obvious that Che is going and a sensible plan would be to replace before we sell, so all things considered, we kinda do need him.

Good shout. I keep forgetting all about Aribo. Not sure what's worse, his appetite to work hard or his hairline. Lets hope he's one we can shift before the window closes.

yep - exactly how I remember it. Not great, I do get that, but I understand why he might make that choice - certainly didn't 'down tools'

Is downing tools actually a correct term for it? If I remember rightly, he refused to extend his contract to finish the season post covid. For which, he had no obligation to do btw. At the time he had interest from some big clubs and didn't want to risk an injury to jeopardise that move. It'd piss me off as a fan, but I get why he would do it.

If we only lose 1 of them, is it actually all that bad? Personally of the 2 I'd rather we sold Tella than Sulamana, who I think will rip this league apart and has higher potential, but if we've managed to cope to date without him so selling him and keeping Tella isn't a terrible thought.

Exactly how I see it. My biggest concern is up top. That's where we need to get it right.

Why? If anything it helps us? Get us out of the division, no commitment for players who aren't good enough to step up, buy players who are. It's a sensible approach imo.

He's had a strange career really. Was absolutely flying a few years back when at Bournemouth under Howe, but then decided to down tool in and around the time where his contract was up and was being linked to top 6 clubs. Ended up at Newcastle, where Howe followed him and never really trusted him again after he downed tools. In short, not a terrible deal, not a great deal. A bit like the Holgate one for me.

Come on mate, its bloody obvious that the 2 ex Swansea players have come here because of Martin. That's fine, they look decent deals for this level, but they're some sort of Wilcox masterclass. Time will tell - I'm biding my time before I get carried away that he is some kind of genius.

so say your theory is right and they 'rushed' through a deal and still managed to agree a fee for less than originally quoted, what would stop us from matching that offer when news of the deal broke? (by the way, newsflash, clubs talk to agents so would have known way in advance of the press). As we know, personal terms are loosely agreed in advance of a deal with the club being agreed. Once a fee is settled, aside from a medical, what else is there to agree? You're talking shite. Its a good deal for Leeds, its not some form of rushed panic buy. A rushed panic buy is spending £20m on Big Paul.

You're clearly underestimating this club. We spend window upon windows chasing players with no interest in coming here. Spoiler - Che isn't signing a new deal. He didn't when we were in the PL (which you' expect to be a better deal), he isn't now. He wants out.

I don't think he's done a great deal right either - He's shifted the players which bigger teams want, that's about it. We don't sign Manning or Downes without Martin being in charge - so he's only really responsible for bringing in Charles.

How do you know that they weren't negotiating in the back ground? Reports were that Swansea wanted £20m for him - they got him for £12 - £16m. I'd put a very decent amount of money on the fact that there has been discussions for some time before the deal was announced.

Playing devils advocate here a bit, but I don't really have a problem with getting him on loan. A try before you buy - if we go up (unlikley imo), we have ability to move on to better players who'll be more suitable for the PL. There was no chance we'd get Downes in on a permanent deal. Maybe if we go up, not in the championship though - this is a shop window for him.

yep. It's been obviously coming since the start. Oh well, at least we got an extra, eerrrr £5m, for JWP!!!!

I'm hoping that Holgate is seen as a erplacement for Tino / KWP, rather than ABK. I'd like to think the links to Wood suggest we're still in for another CB as well. Which would leave us with; Stephens, Bednerak, New... Holgate, Charles who can cover if needed for a short period of time. That feels like a good balance imo.

Exactly what I was saying a few months back when people were lauding us for holding out for pennies in the Martin deal. Cut off our nose to spite our face.

I really don't mind this at all. Can play a few positions in CB and RB. I actually think he's better at RB than he is CB. He'd give us a lot more balance with him at RB given with Mannings inability to defend, which leaves us way to exposed with 2 attacking full backs. Loan is low risk - There's a player in there, hopefully we have an option to buy.