Frank's cousin

Oki can we have a summary (if possible to work out) of hwta the current situation is? My stab - but PLEASE update/correct where its possible with FACTS only as there is a lot of speculation as well.... 1. CSI in Admin - assets include PFC + WRC 9 anything else? 2. CSI being placed in admin protected CSI assets from being seized by Lithianian Government if they go after Valds assets? 3. CSI holding company for PFC but have yet to pay Chanrai for his shares? (Approx 17 mil or 10 mil outstanding?) 4. Pompey owe CSI 10.8 mil in loans - AA if acting in the best interests of CSI creditors (Chinney) should be looking to get this back? 5. Pompey were in effect running at a loss with out this CSI cash, some of it used on transfers some on wages - lets suggest PFC running about 4mil per annum short without CSI cash 6. Pompey new club liabilities include: 17 mil CVA payments, £X mil to gaydamark? £X mil to Chinney?, £xMill to other clubs for transfers (that we know of) 7. Chinney still owns ground, or is that part of the 17 mil he is owed - eg would new owner own ground if chinney gets his money back/club sold? 8. Gaydamrk still owns some land around the ground. 9. No one is sure how CSI funded its assets - could have been 'borrowed' from Snoros savers etc 10. PFC still owe all sub £2500 creditors or is this chinney - open to debate 11. Points deduction possibly - depend son whether FL believe financial link between CSI and PFC - logically there is one there as without 10.8 mil from CSI, pompey are effectly running at a loss/insolvent without a new owner who will underwrite their existing liabilities... but AA is smarter that many on here give him credit for - he is always ahead of the game.... what have I missed?

Good Post! Thing is alps it seems to me that the 'negative' is often highlighted when its not actually necessary. As an example (and I am not having a go here), on a thread yesterday, you were making a very valid point about what would happen if we dont get promoted - with players leaving etc and being left with those that would be very demotivated - all possibly very true, but if you look at it with a more glass half full perspective, you could argue the same point more productively - eg. Yes its possible that if we are not quite there yet, we may struggle for the rest of the season, which may see players like Lallana leave - and we could not blame him. However, we are only 3 years into the 5 year plan and whilst we have seen what in our eyes are 'mistakes', its also part of the learning process for the squad, NC and NA. We know they are relatively inexperienced at this level and whatever happens this season, they will learn a lot about what it takes to go up - It may mean it takes a couple of seasons to rebuild and get promoted, but as we saw with Lawrie Mac after we were relegated from the old L1, we came back stronger from the learning experience. I guess I am not so much frustrated by folk being angry at defeat, afterall no one likes it, but perhaps the medium of the web site, as others allude to robs us of the 'pub discussion' and makes many sound so fickle - add to that that there appears to be such a 'want it now and nothing else will do' attitude to promotion which is never guarranteed even if we spend 15 mil in January (look at the likes of Leicester) and its seems at times as if some fans are rejoicing more in the 'I told you so' than feeling bad about the defeats/current slump... its that which comes across in many of the 'negative posts' from some that leads to such bitter repostes. If for example Dalek had said at the start of the campaign that in his opinion he would be happy with consolidation and mid table and anything else was a bonus and he meant it, he would be surely have been exstatic at being top - but instead so many threads are infested with a kind of gloating that he may be proven right rather... relishing the defeats to prove a point, because he still has some odd obsession with Hoddle.... I think there is room for the passionate swings in emotion from when we win to when we lose - its what fans have been doing for years, but without the benefit of a pint and body language, the laughter when mates disagree, forum posts appear very transparent and are so easily open to misinterpretation as well... I am just as guilty as everyone else, but will try harder ;-) Congrats on the No.4 due in the spring by the way - Alpine air must be good!

I would imagine, that the administrator fees will be coming from whatever 'pot of cash' CSI manage to bring in from selling the CSI assets - effectively the administrator is the first creditor of CSI to be paid in full... so yes he will be paid but by 'CSI' or most likely Chinney as he owns in effect owns an asset again that 'owes' CSI 10,8 mil -... getting confused now... sorry

Re ..;'how can CSI be in admin if its 2 companies are opperating normally..' - this is speculation, but look at the timing. Chanrai took out his charge 24 hours before CSI went into admin.... and Admin protects the CSI assets from being included in any demand of said assets by the lithuanians .... Where the cash came from for CSI to pump money into pompey is anyones guess (but one could speculate alledgedly of course that it might have come from the 'borrowing of cash' from the banks Antonov owned?) - So pompey cannot be claimed and sold as an assett by Lithiuanian Government, even if Antonov is forund guilty, Pompey owe CSI 10 mil, CSI owe Chinny lets say 12mil, - in effect Chinny currently owns Pompey again, with Gaydarmk still owning some land.. so my guess would be Pompey do not owe 10 mil as a deal will be done to wipes this off inexchange for the equity owed to Chinney... who is selling the club again.... so very fortunate for Chinney to have the precience take a charge on pompey 24 hours before CSI went into Admin no? But given the fact that pompey are probably operating at a 10 mil loss without CSI cash injection, it does kind of suggest to me and every over sane person with the exception of the Football league that they are linked financially...

Simple analysis from my vast football brain: ;-) Start of season - everyone fit and on form = string of great results with NA getting most of ALL squad Last 7 games - Chappers out, Lambo been in and out, Adam been out and not firing on all cylinders, Conners not up to speed, now Fonte out + other sides have gotten better = dip in results + NA and NC still LEARNING given their experience and the step up in quality over L1 so it may be talking longer than everyone would like to work out the best way of dealing with the injuries and suspencions and drop in form of key players - and possibly look at the window to bring in some freshness. Not rocket science, just a pragmatic view - and given what we have achieved in 2011 (50 league games, 34 wins, 8 draws and only 8 defeats (110pts)) I imply cant complain - they deserve to be cut a bit of slack and shown 100% support. All the analysis by fans is fun, but not really relevent - sure its clear we dont have the strength in depth to cope with injury and loss of form, but lets see what happens in the transfer window first before we all start revising predictions to those of Daleks doom and gloom. Although we have not played well, we are still creating chances and on another day they go in and we all say its a mark of a great side that can win when not playing well - they dont go in and we several forget what this side has already acheived... come on we are still top of the pile and will get a couple of signings, chappers back and adam will find his form/freedom when RC returns and lets enjoy the run in ride - twists and turns to come, and lets not forget, teh reason we are still top is because others have had the same lack of consistency....

er... would hardly say NA has been bankrolled to a stupid billionnaire level...sor far... and b) in Lawries day you didn't need to be, different era, when you could sign teh European footballer of the Year on 145k a year salary (equiv of about 10k and week in today's prices)....

Feck me we have some right prima donnas on here... What is the problem with some 'fans'? Everyone who has half a brain KNOWS Adkins is entering territory now that he has not faced before - he has proven he has what it takes in L1 with 3 promotions - he has proven he has what it takes to get a side not much different from that in L1 to begin the season strongly, be well prepared and achieve more that any of us though possible at the start of the season. HE is young and LEARNING FFS - and now is a test for sure, but to dismiss him or criticise as some of you are is frankly pathetic. West Ham couldn't buy a win, Boro just got thumped, reading just got turned over - Well feck me - have their managers all lost the dressoing room, are they all suddenly ****? I dont know if he is a manager who will succeed at ten highest level, and we dont know whetehr he is ready and experienced enough to get us out of the curent poor run either - but you know what? I can Guarantee he will be trying his feckin hardest, giving it his all and importantly doing it with passion yet with a smile on his face - and he DESERVES our SUPPORT, Jeez there are some posters on here (I wont call them fans) who are spanking their small planks at being able to have sly digs, or blatent ignorant attacks.... FFS grow up. NOo one is above criticism, and football is a game where every fan will have their own tactical opinion - mostly complete cock but nevertheless its what makes this game so facinating - and discussing the merits or otherwise of formations and players is one thing but to start speculating about the dressing room or other such ****** is plain feckin stupid. What the feck is wrong with some of you people? The club has been in the ****, has been saved and is now 3 years in to a 5 year plan and we no doubt ahead of schedule - so what if mistakes are made, mistakes WILL be made as NC and NA and the squad LEARN to deal with a difficult step up - yet some of you clowns act like it should be a foregone conclusion - jeez. I know feck all about football, but some of you arseholes make me look like Alex friggin Ferguson. Its easy to support when we are winning every game, but its during the tough times that the proper fans get behind the club, the team, and the manager, especially when they have shown us what they are capable of. Heaven forbid we do get promoted when losing becomes more common - what you going to be doing then? Grow some feckin gonads and stop acting like a bunch of pussies.

My sides are splitting.... Zzzzz

2011 - played 50, won 34, drawn 8 lost 8 - 110 pts in league games - Arrise sir Nige and thanks for a great year - Seriously anyone who calls themselves a Saints fan and is not proud of that record should go feck themselves - whatever happens in 2012, this side has delivered beyond expectations so far. The fact that december has seen a poor run, is nothing to be depressed about - it had to happen as it seems to all sides - now we have 22 games to go and sit top of the pile, probably about 10-12 points ahead of where I though we would be at the season - BELIEVE guys! Happy NEW YEAR.

Way too much common sense for this forum! Problem withthe likes of Alps, Dalek and 'Crestfallan' is they dont seem to appreciate that what we have achived since January 2011 - a calander year in hich we have played 50 League games - won 34, drawn 8 and lost just 8 - a total of 110 points in 50 games.... whatever the poor form of December, any team that has those stats deserves huge credit. Especially, as those with a brain know that the side has OER achieved since getting promoted with NA as you say squeezing teh last drop oout of the side that is on paper between 3-8th IMHO. If NA gets teh opportunity to freshen the side with added quality, there is still the chance we can be top 2 but it will take a gargantuan effort - and for a side hjust promoted even top 6 would be a monumental achievement. What really ****s me off though is the agressive bull that these posters display, as though we should be 'walking the league' etc and that someone must be at fault for, or we are somehow failing - there is so much venom its unreal. Sure be disspointed, but no matter what Decmeber has been like, it has obviously been crap for the the likes of West Ham and Boro too as we are still top. Yes we need to pick things up now, but FFS give the side a break - look at those stats and tell me you are not [proud of your team - if you cant be, then feck off and support someone else as we dont need such bull sh!tters...

LOL - but sadly wrong - The day I worry about Turkey and Prune's - whose contributions to this forum could not be more bollo(ks if wrapped in a small soft leather sack and swinging between the hind legs of one of Prune's 'hounds - assessment of my 'credibility' will be the one in which I lose mine altogther. Please try harder sweetie.

LOL ;-) Merry Chrimbo all!

Total ****** - Game keeper at the Norfolk Estate (near Arundel W Sussex) was a good mate of mine - had to keep foxes out of pheasant pens (some 50,000 birds a year for sport) - best and most humane way was a high calibre rifle which he would go out and use - in his opinion, hunting with dogs was unnecessary as more are killed on the roads and its a slow painful death - and he WORKS and lives in the 'countryside'... If a bunch or aristocratic ****s want to run around on chasing animals, nowt I can do about it, but its aint no 'control' measure - and you are stupid if you belive it is.

Check out 'seriouslygoodvenison.co.uk' - just up the road from me- having the filet with a port and juniper berry sauce, spiced red cabbage puree, fondant pots, glazed root veg... perfect. Local crab and lobster salad to start.... mmm.mm and way too much fine wine - good thing about this is you get 90% of if it done before and it only takes 30 mins in the kitchen on Christmas day... glad to see pfc123 is on the beans - at least one skate knows when to economize - Happy Chrimbo to ya all - and that includes the Skates, Dune, Turkey and that sad tory **** GM! :-) Peace and love man

Comes down simply to the interpretation (and your own standards) of what you believe is insulting and how that is defined. Think about the old 'Pornography is offensive to women' FeMail standard quotation - Whereas the writer Christopher Brookmyre put it best when he said 'NO, Pornography is not offensive to women, pornography is something SOME women will find offensive'' there is a difference - the problem with insults is the same - some people will find what is said offensive, others wont - in addition, you have to ask what is meant by it - I suspect that 99.9999% of those who use the 'black' adjective in front of another word that (some folk might) find offensive do so because they do see a negative difference (are racist) and hope it offends more than just calling the same person a bastard... as pap has said context is everything - but you also need to add the fact that its about education, we wont finally be rid of racism until folk stop using skin colour differences as part of an insult - If you are not a racist and detest racism as you state, you will find that ther is NO need to reference skin colour in insult and would like to see it removed.

Thing is IMHO, the punishment is for what has been said in public, on TV etc and feck all to do with whether you believe Terry/Saurez to be racist or not. Personally, I dont believe either of the two are racists, (and i cant stand Terry), just a bit too thick to realise that its no longer acceptable to say such things even in banter - its seen by millions of kids who interpret this as acceptable and thats is why the bans need to harsh whatever the meaning behind it. Its a bit stange though when a player gets a 10 match ban for pushing over a lino in the heat of a game, and only 8 for publically making a racist slur... and the scousers are complaining FFS... on that scale Suarez should have been banned for 20+ games surely?

Careful, that image will have Dun©e creaming his pants...

Tried sweetie? well is probably passed your bedtime

We wall know where you should go - yours posts dont irritate me, they provide good value comedy entertainment - for anyone suffering maybe from a lack of self esteem, they just need to read one of your 'comedy putdowns' , see what an utter complete cock you are and they will feel much better about themselves - seriously your lack of self awareness has such great comedy value ;-)

People being whinging moaning bastards about things that have feck all relevence ...Lifes too short FFS :-)

Very droll troll... translates as you cant answer the rest with a straight face... but I think you are missing a few things here.... Any potentila buyer cannot GIVE the moent direct to Chanrai - afterall he does not own the club, but is merely a preferred creditor of CSI to the tune of anywhere betwen 12 or 7 mil depending on which source you belive.. so first up, Pompey OWE 10.8 mil or whatever to CSI's administrtaors which I guess will be called in at some point - cant pay it? whats new... so it counts as a debt in pompeys books + plus any currrent losses + the 16,8 mil CVA (irrespective of whether covered by 2 more parachute payments or not). NOte if you cant pay back CSI, with no facility in place to cover the hole you are infact trading insolvently again... so I guess it depends firstly on how quickly AA wants that for CSI -(such a conflict of interest must surely come to the attention of someone soon? no? but even you must see its dodgy morally/ethically surely?) So AA needs to flog the carcus with 11 mil of debt owing + 17 CVA and with player contracts in place which are ensuring you are making a loss - but will be interesting to know whetehr as a secured creditor, IF Chinny dont get his full return, whether he keeps the title deeds to the crumbling wreck that is Fratton Park ... maybe, maybe not who knows. Anyway I digress and I know have a short attention span - what else can he sell to make up the numbers - what else in the CSI portfolio has any income of worth, either way chinney needs 17 mil or he holds on to Fratton park - cant see him handing it all over for 20p in the pound... Ok I am completely mad I want to buy pompey waht is it really going to cost me... well maybe I can do a deal with AA - maybe buy the club for £1 and then pay back CSI 10.8 mil - which as you have observed all goes to chinney... but hangon chinney is still owed 2 or 7 mil by CSI so what price .... yes youve guessed hold on to Fratton park deeds - which makes a 10 mil purhase price a little low.... So lets round it up to £17 mil to get a loss making club - at which point because I am sensible I will sell the players with big contracts as I cant afford them.... now this may actually make a loss as I will have to pay off their contracts many of which are nice an new ££££ so lets add another 5 mil or so - so 25 mil will get me the full club, the ground and teh players I cant sell just to break even with the possibilty of relegation to the third tier - with a third tier stadium and third tier support - nah, my prose, posts etc mught be dull, long winded etc,, but I aint that stupid - better pray mate that some gullable **** is out there with more money than sense... its your only hope.

You keep hold of players for one of 3 reasons IMHO: 1. Opportunity to play week in week out 2. Success - opportunity to win things 3. Pay - ability to satisfy wage demands (especially after those fecking leaches called agents start their hideous whisperings) We can offer 1. To young players good enough far more than the 'bigger clubs'. We are progressing so there may come a time where we could challenge for the odd trophy - who knows -so 2...possible. 3 well I for one don’t want our club falling into the wage cycle trap and do we really want the type of player here that is not happy with 30K a week (in the prem) because he knows he can get 60 or 90 at Arse or Citeh? The problem we will face soon and one I am sure Cortese has considered is that unlike leagues in Germany or many of the other countries, The prem has around 4-6 teams already constantly looking for a CL place - Germany you have Bayern, but the rest sort of churn and churn for a very good reason.. young players tend to stay until 21/22 or their contract ends (see Goetze telling the gunners to feck off etc) so it allows clubs like Leverkusen and Dortmund, Werder Bremen, Schalke, etc to have a cyclic good season as they get a younger crop... The prem for all its ****** about being the best, is so skewed in favour of the same old guard financially, and we sadly have a youth culture that is 'I want it NOW' so that when the agents and 'bigger clubs' come calling - there is little anyone can do unless you can offer them CL football, silver wear and £50k a week at 19... This is for me why the Prem stinks - the academy thing is only designed to ensure they can pick up these youngsters cheaper - then sell those that don’t make it back to the smaller clubs who had to release them for a pittance in the first place... The fairest thing to do would be to ensure that clubs can ONLY approach a club, player or agent IF the club who owns a youngster WISHES/NEEDS to sell them (as many lower league clubs do) and they have been placed on an FA register - eg clubs and agents can only look at those players - This should be in place for all players under 21 globally - means clubs can sell if they need to, but protects those that don’t want to... simple.... but FIFA, UEFA, FAs etc all bend over to the big clubs and leagues for fear of losing what little control over the game they still have.... The worst part is that the Prem League themselves are so in favour of the status quo (being driven by the big few IMHO) that they fail to realize the value in ensuring a more competitive league could be achieved through such rulings ensuring clubs that invest in youth benefit by having at least a couple of seasons where their best youth can make a real impact... sadly the big clubs don’t want this as it would mean your Bales, Walcotts and Oxos would cost them 20-30mil rather than 5-10mil at most, probably a lot less in future with the new academy classification system. The system stinks; the prem league stinks and the governing bodies have no guts or power to do anything about it... If the fans of those 'bigger' clubs want to know the reason why so many real fans hate their clubs, IMHO it’s this simple issue that having been able to establish themselves a financial advantage on the back of the biggest slice of SKY revenues from armchair fans, they now don’t want to change that or make the league more competitive ... believing in their arrogance that its some sort of right that this is how it should be. The old chestnut about there will never be another Forest type club is only true because the prem league is set up that way - and no one wants to change it - Whereas Beyer Leverkusen could have won the CL but for a wonderful strike from Zidane a few years ago, with basically a crop of their own young players - sure Ballack and the like all fecked off after that season, but at least they had a chance and the revenues enabled them to build again for the next cycle... Scudamore has so little self awareness when he pontificates about the 'best league in the world' - he probably believes his own hype now - best in terms of marketability and revenue generation yes... best in terms of competitiveness and opportunity NO, best in terms of quality of football NO...

To be fair though... that is not definitive yet it does not really matter what the money was used for. If as Corpse suggests part of it was used to pay Chanrai an installment that is actually possible (although subsequent reports suggest this is not the case)... it would be a simple case of CSI leveraging the club against the purchase - eg the money used to buy the club is then added to the clubs books in the form of a loan... could have been the case here (no different to what the yanks did at Man U, just on a much smaller scale, or in fact what we have done with it being speculated that the 13 mil ML paid has been added to the books as a loan from ML) . However, the key issue here is that now CSI has been placed in admin... the administrator wants its back to pay off CSI creditors.... one of which is Chanrai who is still owed (preferentially at last minute) for the original purchase. So the shares in Pompey new co that CSI held have now in effect passed to chanrai (held by AA) until a buyer is found and Chanrai paid his due... not sure how they sort that 10 mil out... but hey sure they will find a way... So that leaves pompey owing 10 mil or so to CSI whichever way you look at it and whatever it was used for... which begs the question, why did pompey not use whatever cash they had to clear some of their debt burden? Why did they spend 4mil + on players and wages that they don’t have at a time when they have such a convoluted ownership structure in place re club, ground, land etc that it makes selling the club more difficult? Why did they spend 4mil + on players and salaries when they once again knew that without it they would be making a loss... at a time when no one is going to lend them anything given their history? Why did the FA/FL let them do this? (obsessed with the 'integrity of the competition' - eg it would be wrong of them to dictate draconian measures that would in effect guarantee relegation for a club before a ball is kicked - which I can understand in principle, but surely simply better for both the game, the league and Pompey, if they were forced to put their house in order in L1? - because they certainly had no intention of doing the RIGHT thing and taking it on the chin and playing the kids if the FL/FA did not force them to...unlike us who did it ourselves to try and avoid admin in the first place...) I suspect they are actually on a more sound footing than last time, no published accounts but suspect that with that squad, the crap gate and without CSI cash, they are probably now running at an estimated loss of around 3-4 mil a year... but without any facility with a bank or cash from an owner to underwrite it - they may actually not have used it yet, but are now in a situation where the cash will run out in a few weeks time and with the payments due in April... they could be back in Admin by then... unless the Prem give them another advance on their last 2 years parachute payments that were meant for the CVA.... So if you want to buy Pompey now what are you looking at? The club - probably 10mil or so to pay off chanrai? (how much is still owed to him?) 10 mil to CSI Pay off gaydamrk - how much is owed to him as a creditor? Pay off Gaydamrk/Chanrai for any land they own around the ground after the above payments are made... may be nothing, not sure what the current contracts include + knowledge of 16 mil in total CVA payments due + currently running at a loss with existing squad 3-4 mil a year would be my guess? + uncertainty over points situation + uncertainty over relegation + L1 infrastructure All for what is going to cost you a minimum of £20mil to pay everyone off and leave you with a loss making company that still owes 16 mil under terms of the current CVA But hey it could get worse... any interested party might just think... ‘let’s wait - they will be in Admin again by April, docked 20 + points but will finally be debt free and I can pick them up for £1 in the conf and start again - surely the best option? If I was a genuine pompey fan with 20Mil or so, it’s what I would wait for, so that the monies I bring in would be used to rebuild from square one, not pay off the dark and dodgy characters who have got them in this ****e - who knows, perhaps there are as AA says plenty of really stupid or more really smart laundry experts waiting in the wings as we speak.... Re. Pedg quote: Question is what other sorts of debts did CSI have to contribute towards the admin? As a holding company mainly used to channel Antonovs money would there actually be many other creditors? '' I thought I read somewhere that CSI had been placed in admin as it protects the CSI companies (to a certain degree) from being assets seized by the Lithuanians as the charge against said companies will be prioritised to the secured creditors of CSI, rather than bank customers.... smells fishy to me, but then most things doen teh road do, especially as Chanrais charge was only registered a few days before CSI went into admin... how can that be legal FFS?

Meow! I feel your love Sweetie ;-) Funny how someone who likes to portray themselves as an intellectual heavyweight spouts so much unintelligent agteesive bile ove what is obvious to anyone with no GCSEs yet a functioning brain is a tongue-in-cheek statement (the bit about 'the clap' is the clue)... You forget I have acvtually met you, and rather than being the aforementioned intellectual heavy weight, you are in fact just an ordinary scroat like the rest of us... but with a rather large dose of Pious arrogant ***** thrown in for good measure... This naturally wont offend as you wont be reading this anyway.

Alps