OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint

Dragan should know how the media works as well as anyone, so he can use it to our advantage. By the time the season starts, wouldn't be surprised if in the media we'll be the club that was wronged and the witch hunt will turn on Gibson and Boro. There again, by the time the season starts, people will largely have forgotten about what happened three months ago.

In total agreement with this, M'lud. He knew what he was doing and in all probability, did it every game. Our defence of admitting to Oxford and Ipswich was shambolic but let's move on. Get the lawyers on the offensive, let the FA know that Tonda has our full support and they need to back off and we could have a very interesting season next year.

Yes, exactly what I was hoping for. Dragan is a media mogul, he should know. At last, he is taking control of the story. We were done over by the press and our own inactivity. Now there's the implied threat that carry on knocking us and we might sue for the potential loss of millions (let alone the reputation of SR). And leave Tonda alone. It's our call. And as for those pious neaderthals living in the north east, they need to have this 'integrity' shoved down their throats. They've acted with anything but over this saga. I remember going to Ayresome Park around '80/'81 season and getting off the train, there was only a hundred of us and we were met with police horses, police dogs. There was more than a cop for each away fan. In those days, the Newcastle cops would come down to police the Boro games and I asked one of them why the large presence, and he said a Forest fan had been stabbed the previous home game. Can we sue them? Data breach on Will Salt? They need to be put in their place.

An hour! The request was for 20 minutes. That's just enough time to make contact, establish a bit of a rapport and to sow a few seeds. The ultimate goal is to give him another channel of advice - one from the fans' perspective. The chances of him agreeing to a meeting are of course minimal, but as they say, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Nope, have genuinely requested a meeting. We can all whinge amongst each other but to meet the decision maker might have more impact. But as stated, the chances of actually being granted a meeting are minimal. What I will say is that there are many posters on this site that have over the years have consistently made sensible recommendations and yet time and time again, the club does the opposige and makes mistakes. SR, and Dragan in particular, needs to hear our views.

Where do SR go from here? I would be getting the legal team to prepare a civil suit against the EFL that, if successful, would cost them tens of millions. We have been railroaded out of a chance to premier league football next season. They have besmirched the good name of SR (ok, steady on!). Sponsors are cautious, the players are cautious all because of some half arsed rule that was draconially imposed with the sub-judice support of a biased team. They need to pay. Then I would be contacting the FA and finding out what they're going to do. It's unfair for us to be hanging on if they've already decided that Tonda will probably face a ban. Let us know. I have written to Mr Solak requesting a face to face meeting. He needs to have fans' input. Of course, the chance of him accepting my request is miniscule, but having been on this forum for years and so often seeing posters foresee the inevitable, our voice needs to be heard and SFC needs to be seen to be doing something.

If they want Tonda to stay, they'll need to do a lot more than that. The FA will be considerably more concerned if the SFC lawyers release statements along the lines of they are preparing a civil case for tens of millions against the EFL due to loss of potential revenue, damaging the SR image, not following due process etc etc.

We must be in to Phase Two - the buck passing. Tonda breaking the rules with his excessive scouting was technically wrong (apparently teams knew we did it and even laid on fake drills for the 'spectators') but how SR have handled the situation since the story first broke is much worse. While we guess what SR are up to, and conspiracy theories abound, sometimes the answer is very simple - SR aren't doing anything because they don't know what to do. They didn't react when the news first broke because they didn't know how to. Now there's no news because they don't know whether to keep Tonda or ditch him and are probably hoping the FA will make the decision for them. The FA won't be in such a rush as the EFL.

Which is why we need to go on the offensive, persue a civil action and prove this law is wrong on so many counts...otherwise I suspect you're right. The FA will walk all over us like they do other clubs that can't defend themselves (eg. Reading, Sheff Wed)

Tonda's actions cost us the opportunity to play premier league football and that amounts to £200m in many pundits' estimates. Even in the world of football, surely that's not acceptable. A good argument is that without him we couldn't have got to the play off places. But we've all watched the games. He had an initial new manager bounce then we went in to a deep dive. What changed in January? A new goalkeeper, a new formation and centre forwards that can do a job. Was he the real reason for our unbeaten run or could another half decent manager have done the same? His scouting missions to other clubs were only a small part of his planning process. Rumour has it that other clubs knew and even prepared fake practice drills to confuse him. Of more concern is that he said he didn't know what he was doing is unlawful and the alleged 'bullying' tactics he used. Again, there's no place forthat in SFC.

I'm hoping this isn't over. As time goes on, there will be a feeling of 'it's done, let's forget about it and move on' and as the events of the last couple of weeks become more distant, there's a likelihood this feeling will become more entrenched Middlesbrough acted sub-judice. Their 'integrity' has to be questioned. Process wasn't followed and decisions were made by a kangeroo panel and board. There's plenty to investigate and a lot riding on it. So, I for one, want to see a court challenge.

Yes, my original take was to ask the players to get their views on staying/Tonda etc, but not firing him might more be because of who else is implicated.

Edozie's statement made it look like he wants to be around next season. We know the team at is stands is good enough to chase for promotion. None of us understimate Peretz's contribution (is there no way we can't sign him again on loan?) so that position needs to be filled, but keep the team and with any half decent manager, we'll do well. Many are assuming THB will be off, so why not bring him in and renegotiate keeping him on better terms. And we'll be swimming in funds once our lawyers get off their arses and sue the EFL for the tens of millions we're owed for missing out on our chance for promotion.

In the main, I get my 'news' from the SaintsWeb site and form an opinion on the various views. But speaking to other Saints' fans today, they said there's texts between Tonda and analysts where he's saying go back and watch the team again because he wasn't happy with the results and analysts texting him saying are you sure we should be doing this? Surely he knew he was breaking the rules. I can see SFC releasing this kind of stuff to make it sound like he was a loose cannon, but given his connection to Spors, it's hard to believe he also did not know what was going on. So it's not just Tonda that needs to go. If the last two weeks are anything to go by, the Saints hierarchy will drag their feet and wait for the FA's decision. But if SFC want to keep him, they need to get going and trivialise the rules he broke, threaten to sue anyone who continues to call him a cheat (he's only a rule breaker) and generally go on the offensive. Nah, you're toast Tonda.

Well done Mr Ilicali. Now can we have the name of your lawyers.....

Gibson is a bully and those that are around in 10 years time will also still be able to show the scars of his antics. SFC need to change the narrative. This beating ourselves over the head with self pity is worse than the crime. Tonda wasn't spying, he was scouting. Scouting is "the open ot tactical observation of an area to gain a tactical advantage". Spying involves entering enemy territory covertly, dead letter drops, microfiche in doorframes etc etc. He is a rule-breaker but not a cheat. I'd be asking the players and if they are going to stay and support him, then I would be getting a man on the FA board, a man on the deciding panel (if a separate 'independent' panel makes the decision on his future) and our publicity machine in to full swing to influence the FA's decision to give him a fine.

Tend to agree but who does he take with him? Everyone will be trying to distance themselves from him, but was he really acting as a lone wolf? Which of the analysts went on scouting surveys? Who did the due diligence on his appointment? Did the players know? Who in senior management knew of his activities but didn't stop him? If anything, they're equally culpable.

Hey ho, he did us like a kipper. Let's just all lie down and take it! No, I haven't got over it. We have been cheated out of a spot in the play off final and we need recompense.

I doubt it. On the continent, I don't know but get the impression it's more or less accepted that teams scout other teams. But given the precedent with Bielsa, we know you can be fined if caught in this country so we should have at least told Tonda not to do it.

Exactly. Rules, as my father used to tell me, are for the guidance of the wise but for the obedience of fools. It is illegal to carry a plank of wood along a pavement unless unloading from a vehicle. You can't blindly follow illogical rules. This 72 hour no scouting rule (which is without a specific punishment) is nonsense. Yes we broke it but a good team of lawyers should rip this apart.

So in 2014, France accused Germany of spying on their training session. Makes you think it must be a German thing until you realise the Head Analyst for the World Cup was one Tonda Eckert. Then in 2015 Cologne were caught spying. Their Assistant Manager...Tonda Eckert! While I personally don't see this as such the crime of the century that others do, it does make you think that Tonda should have been given a quick lecture when he joined to say we don't do things like that here. It's highly likely that a lot of people knew what he was doing which might explain why Tonda hasn't departed yet. Can you make a scapegoat of one person?

Surely there is a legal argument to say that with such a conflict of interest, the panel's decision should be voided. And then you look at the EFL Board and lo and behold isn't there a Middlesbrough director? Some comments on this site remind me of Hugh Lawrie in Blackadder. He did us like a kipper, jolly good show. Hey ho... Maybe I'm in denial but I see a minor infringement followed by a stitch up has cost us a shot at promotion. If that's the £200m often quoted, then we should be claiming at least half plus other fallout (eg sponsors leave, if players leave that we would otherwise have kept) Dragan get top money lawyers on the case. Show them you don't mess with Southampton FC.

Don't deny we broke some half arsed rule multiple times but it's time for our media to get on top of this. It was scouting and the punishment dictated by Middlesbrough and excessive. Appreciate entrapment is no defence but it's becoming apparent that we're the ones that have been cheated and need to persue this in the civil courts.

But shouldn't our club make sure the whole football world know what Middlesbrough did? Add to that a dubious panel and this is more that being stitched up. This is surely grounds for a civil case. If I were Dragan, I'd be phoning Man City and ask to borrow some of their lawyers. Literally hundreds of millions could be at stake.

So true. If it had been called 'scouting' from the outset, do we think it would have had the same impact?