DellBlockH

No. We need there to be no ban or, at worst, a suspended ban. The club has been punished already out of all proportion to the offence. Tonda has been punished, presumably, by not getting his promotion bonus or Premier League wage deal. Give him a telling off and we can all move on.

But he has been punished. I would assume he was on a large bonus if he had got us up and a much-improved contract once he got there. The FA should say they have looked at the situation and, in view of the punishment already handed out by the EFL, no further action is required other than a warning about future conduct. I hope the club and its lawyers are saying the same thing.

Just renewed. The purchase page offered me a load of "bolt ons" to buy without explaining what I'd get for the quite large amounts of money required. It's very unlikely I'd spend more than the basic cost of renewal, but it's definitely not going to happen if you don't tell me what I get. I've been back and checked the website and can't find any information there either. If it's not there, or hidden away, how do they expect to sell these extras?

OK, I don't like boxing. I don't like the idea of a sport where the aim is to injure your opponent and to inflict possible permanent brain damage. But, if I were a fan, would I want to watch it from the sort of distance likely (apart from the ringside seats) at St Mary's? Surely the whole point is to see the intricate hand and foot movements or, as a non-fan, have I completely got this wrong?

They are not saying that they didn’t commit the offence or that they shouldn't be punished (they were). They are saying that they cannot be held financially liable for Burnley's relegation.

It makes you wonder how any football club can plan for the future. Everton were punished at the time and, presumably, thought that was it. Any claim by Burnley (or any other club) should have been dealt with then. The same goes for our recent transgression. Deal with it summarily and move on. Having several goes at the same offence helps no-one. Moving on to any claim against us that Middlesbrough might contemplate, I think it would be difficult for them to show that our spying denied them Premier League football. They rather managed that on their own.

Back to when we all touched our forelocks to the likes of Rupert and Nigel.

All the talents, right there.

I've been away from this forum for a few days and have come back to find we're still arguing in circles from a position of, largely, ignorance. We don't know what the club is doing to defend itself in the event of an FA charge but I would imagine that one defence would be along the lines of "We've been severely punished by the EFL, are you really suggesting we ought to be punished further?" And to show that they've taken steps to prevent any reoccurrence. We don't know what discussions the club has had with Eckert. I suspect they want him to stay or he would have been gone by now in an attempt to minimise any FA sanctions. But I don't know. I'm suspicious of the report in the Sun, partly because it's in the sun but also because I would have thought that most players are away on holiday rather than having meetings at Staplewood. I'm still in the "keep Tonda unless the FA makes this impossible" camp.

As Sir N Holder said, it's only just begun.

Last season, we stunk up the Premier League and slipped out at a record earliest date after sticking with Russell Marin for too long. We followed that with the appointment of Ivan Juric and then Will Still. We stunk up the Championship for the first half of this season. But, somehow, we attracted a major shirt sponsor in the shape of P&O Cruises. This talk that sponsors will want out is nothing more than a feeling on the part of some posters here. I've seen nothing to suggest that any of our sponsors don't want to continue their deals. I'll repeat. We did wrong. We've been punished. Whether that punishment was fair or excessive is no longer the argument. It happened and is not going to change. We need to decide whether keeping the best manager we've had in ages has a negative impact on the club in the future. I'm firmly in the camp that says we keep him unless the FA decide that is untenable or if the players no longer want to work with him (and I've seen no evidence of that). Nobody outside Southampton, and perhaps Middlesbrough, will care once the new season starts about our observing other teams' training. There might be some banter and chanting but this can all be quelled by results on the pitch. It would, to my mind, be foolish to sack someone who has shown he is capable of getting those results. We've been punished. I've no doubt Tonda has been punished as he must have been on a bonus had we got to the EPL. Move on and stop the self-flagellation.

I guess it starts with accepting the punishment we have received but not adding to it unless forced to by the FA.

But we are allowed to compare with Formula 1, apparently. How about netball? Or rounders?

Ah, but what about Tonda Eckert?

Because of his actions, we moved from relegation fodder to the play offs. The decent side only came into existence when he took over. Before that, it was a collection of players who either didn’t know what was required or couldn't be arsed to do it. Some players will leave, but some players would have left anyway had we finished mid-table or, worse, got relegated. The only chance we had of keeping our best players was to get promoted and we looked nowhere near doing that halfway through the season.

It depends on how you define pressure. Asking someone to do a job, and then insisting they do what you have asked, is not necessarily undue pressure. He is, after all, the one in charge and would expect his instructions to be carried out. I assume Bielsa did the same. I hope we keep Tonda. The club has been punished comprehensively for something which gained, in the end, little or no advantage. We need to stop punishing ourselves further by getting rid of the most successful manager we've had in ages. The FA should draw the same conclusion. We wronged. We've been punished. Move on.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Still, at least they had a nice day out.

Where are we hearing this from? Has a player publicly stated they are livid with Tonda? They should perhaps remember they would have been nearer relegation than the play-offs without him. There was no guarantee that they would win against Hull. And, finally no guarantee that some of them would have played in the Premier League had we got there. Take this talk of player anger with a pinch of salt. Sure, some will want to leave, as they would have done if we had lost the final.

I'm in the keep, if he wants to stay and the FA permit, camp. He made a mistake. On the plus side, he got our players out of their complacent, half-arsed stupor and got us up the table. Why would we get rid? We've been punished more than adequately. Why add to that?

If you're after crap analogies, here's another one. A player makes a reckless and dangerous tackle and gets sent off and automatically banned for three matches. He made the tackle to stop a certain goal when the opposition player was clean through. This is cheating. The FA looks again at the circumstances of the foul and increases the suspension to six matches. When that is over, would we welcome this player, who has been a vital part of our team, back into the fold? Or would we say, no, you cheated, leave our club immediately? Is the level of cheating we're holding Tonda to account for worse than a dangerous tackle to stop a certain goal?

I think it is very unlikely. The threat of legal action outside the EFL procedure might have a bearing though.

Should we bring our own pitchforks?

Up to a point. But if the other party in the undertaking is thought to have been acting unreasonably then I think the first party has a right to seek the verdict of the court. As I said in earlier post, I'm not a lawyer but nothing can stop somebody or a corporate making a legal claim and, in my view, they cannot be threatened with further sanctions for doing so. That would be a denial of basic legal rights. Of course, whether Saints have any prospect of winning a legal battle is a different argument.

I keep coming back here. Don't know why. It just depresses me. The club broke the rules and deserved to be punished. The punishment is disproportionate to the crime and benefit gained. Both these statements can be true. And, now, I'm going to try to stop looking here, at least until our appeal is complete.

The punishment in no way is proportionate to the crime. I understand that we signed, as members of the EFL, an agreement that we would not take any dispute into the courts of the land. But (and I stress I'm not a lawyer), a contract or agreement can only be valid if both parties act reasonably? If one party has acted completely unreasonably, as I believe the EFL has, it is up to the club to take legal action outside of the EFL's appeals process. Nothing can trump q decison of the court. I would hope that the club's legal team are working to overturn the decision in the courts and seeking an injunction against Middlesbrough playing on Saturday.