buctootim

Its all about different sects within the same religion. You have some extreme Muslims, Jews, Hindus, even Christians and Buddhists and you have the liberal live and let live types too. You can have a boozy eat what you like life in Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Kazahstan, Turkey, Morocco, Oman, Jordan, Lebanon etc etc. I find it odd that we ally with the most repressive regime and the biggest exporter of hate, Saudi Arabia.

Its not a complex point - there is no they. Unless you are happy being in a 'they' group with Karadzic, Anders Breivnik and Adam Johnson?

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She was put under awful pressure. According to her evidence and that of her friends she was really chuffed about her fling with Johnson and showed pictures of him to her friends to prove her story. It got around, parents got to hear about it and the police got involved. The girl for a long time refused to accept there was anything wrong and she had to get special counselling to persuade her she had been abused. When Johnson denied the charges kids at school and on social media starting abusing her really badly calling her a liar. She was then in an impossible position, no matter what she said. Justice is supposed to be about protecting the victim. Being put through wringer, dragged through press and seeing Johnson sent to jail for 6 years - the girl got no justice through this thoughtless process.

Im not sure if the $10 was for the hour or the whole night.

Don't forget the slavery, incest, rape, mass murder and guilt by association.

Religious texts are the product of the time ans culture in which they were written. Islam is not worse than the bible 1. God himself will kill tens of thousands if it pleases him: 1st Samuel 6:19 in the King James Version: “And he smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men (50,070)”. Kill 50 000 men for looking at something? 2. You can kill a woman if she seizes a man's private parts without his permission: Deuteronomy 25:11-1: If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity. 3. Perversity and human trafficking condoned: "Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18) 4. Sex slavery condoned: "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again." Exodus 21: 7-8 5. Divorce akin to debauchery: "Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." (Luke 16:18) 6. Cannibalism: "And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son...." (II Kings 6:28-29) 7. If your genitals have been damaged, stay out of church: "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord."(Deuteronomy 23:1) 8. Incest and getting drunk with dad is no problem if the world is running thin on suitable DNA donors: And the elder said to the younger Our father is old, and there is no man left on the earth, to come in unto us after the manner of the whole earth. Come, let us make him drunk with wine, and let us lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the elder went in and lay with her father: but he perceived not neither when his daughter lay down, nor when she rose up. And the next day the elder said to the younger: Behold I lay last night with my father, let us make him drink wine also to night, and thou shalt lie with him, that we may save seed of our father. They made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in, and lay with him: and neither then did he perceive when she lay down, nor when she rose up. So the two daughters of Lot were with child by their father. [Genesis 19:31-36] 9. Looking at a woman with desire is akin to adultery: "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28) 10. But incestuous rape is cool: And when she had presented him the meat, he took hold of her, and said: Come lie with me, my sister. She answered him: Do not so, my brother, do not force me: for no such thing must be done in Israel. Do not thou this folly. [iI Kings 13:8-12] But he would not hearken to her prayers, but being stronger overpowered her and lay with her. [iI Kings 13:14] 11. Pray in private, and if you do so in church, do so quietly: Matt 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others." 12. If you offend God he will kill you: "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also." (Genesis 38:7-10) 13. God smites women, children and often animals with equal gusto, he seems to equal evil and wrong doing by association, rather than by being guilty of the personal, individual act: "Behold with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day." (II Chronicles 21:14-15)

I agree. He shouldnt have done it but she was 15 not 12, it was by consent and there was no 'full' sex. Totally disproportionate imo compared with other crimes. I saw one last week where a guy beat up his ex partner and threatened to kill her, broke her dads jaw; bit and assaulted the police when they turned up and smashed up her car - £120 fine and 12 months supervision order.

Ha, thanks! I lost faith in it though and toned it down

Exactly. As a country we seem to have lost perspective. Drama queens in love with terror viewed safely from our sofas and then letting world know how we feel. In 1975 aged 12 I was in a snooker hall in Belfast city centre with my uncle. Three bombs went off outside in a period of an hour. As a Brit visitor I was scared and suggested we should go back to Aunties. His reply was exactly the kind of phlegmatic calm we've lost - "aach they're only blast bombs. Anyway if we leave now we'll never get a taxi and Im not walking two miles".

Its complex and not easy to spot, mainly because there isnt much logic to their thoughtlines. One of the Paris bombers used to spout jihadist Is stuff to his friends whilst smoking dope and drinking in the bar he ran, so they didnt take him seriously. Most / many of the European born jihadis have been in prison. To become an IS killer seems to take mostly disaffection with life, a criminal tendency and only thirdly a perverted version of Islam. There's a good piece here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35890960.

Its just some weak shape shifting he's trying - 'Im against this religion because its intolerant and violent, its not because they're brown, no sir, so you cant call me a racist. The fact I do hate brown people, black people and European immigrants is beside the point'.

How about 'misanthrope'? does that sit better with you? Or sectarian, that fits too. Segrationist possibly? Or just plain vanilla bigot. You choose. They all work.

Sure, I wasnt pointing the finger at you, but at one or two others on this thread.

That reflects past immigration policy of bringing in unskilled labour from small areas of Bangladesh and Pakistan to do predominantly low paid manual jobs in the UK. That policy never made sense - cheap labour was not the right way for British companies to compete when they should have been investing in raising productivity. Past failings in immigration policy is though in no way a basis for demonising those who moved here legally and mostly have worked hard for less than average wages.

I drove around Lake Como in August and it wasnt that busy - lots of "chiuso per ferie" signs in fact

How would we have been worse off if your parents had never conceived you? Can you point to anything?

Duckhunter in missing the point, again, shocker. In baby language. The point was, slowly now, that the IRA have killed far more people in Britain than IS and its a white 'Christian' organisation. Still with us? Just as it makes no sense to try to predict sympathy for the IRA based on religion, so it makes no sense to try to predict sympathy for IS based on being a Muslim. The stupidity belongs to those who cant / wont see the difference between violent Salafism and mainstream Islam. Salafism is a threat to everybody who doesnt agree with them - but mostly to mainstream Islam. Muslims are by far the largest number of victims. The people IS hate the most are mainstream Muslims. Why is Salafism a much bigger deal now than it ever used to be? Because our 'friends' and allies Saudi Arabia, the ones we sell arms to, spend billions promoting it across the world as an integral part of a network of free schools in poor parts of the world where they have none. Why has the Taliban been able to largely take over Afghanistan? because the Americans funded them to expand to fight the Soviets, but in doing so they usurped the tribal leaders and have grabbed control of the opium trade. How does IS function in Syria? because our friends and allies Turkey buy their oil and supply them. I think you'll find the ****s are us and our friends and allies, not mainstream muslims.

What stupid fishing list?

and the whites - could be IRA or ETA.

They'd love that, up the body count no end. Its difficult and expensive for a middle east based organisation to launch operations in Europe. Far easier if we bring soldiers to them. Handy roadside bomb locations is manna from heaven. An occupation force helps with recruitment too

Theres not a substantial risk though. Around 26,000 people will die in road crashes in the EU this year, some 70 a day, double the Brussels tragedy. Awful though it is, people blow things out of proportion.