Matthew Le God

You do realise that is what my point is, and it is explained by the butterfly effect. So why were you arguing against me when you've said to Glasgow you agree with me?

You didn't answer the two questions.

Because different factors change the placement of the lottery balls meaning you get a different outcome even if the situation looks the same each week. The same applies to a cup draw, the person putting the balls in the bowl, stirring them and picking them out would use different hand movements if they have experienced different things in the previous 24 hours.

Why aren't the lottery numbers the same every week? If you stir a bowl full of balls without being able to see them will you position them in exactly the same position and then pick the same balls in the same order even if the 24 hours prior to that moment have been different for you?

- David Icke proposes lizards are ruling the world. - I (and every major university in the world) can see that seemingly small and trivial events can have big knock on effects. Big difference between the two!

Which helps prove my point! Cheers!

You said it "wasn't accepted", I've told you it is taught in every major university maths department in the world. Does that not show it is accepted? You haven't raised any flaws in chaos theory or the butterfly effect. Why not? We are discussing differences of the draw outcome if Saints won or lost, so of course it is a "what if" situation. You have still failed to offer anything remotely close to dismissing chaos theory and the butterfly effect.

You have a common misunderstanding of what a "theory" is, its not a guess that you can easily dismiss. A theory in science is the best answer given all of the available current evidence. The theory of gravity and theory of evolution aren't guesses, they are the best explanation given the current evidence in the academic community. A bullet can either hit or miss. If your grandfather was killed aged 20 in a war, it is impossible for you to be born, have kids and for those kids to interact with people. One alternative is the bullet misses, you are born and have kids. It isn't a guess that is the case, I don't see how you can construct a counter to it and you have failed to do so up until this point.

Then why is it taught in every major university maths department in the world?

I know I'm persisting with it more than most people would bother, but I don't see why people aren't able to grasp it. At its heart it is a relatively simple concept accepted by the scientific and mathematic academic community, yet flys over the heads of some people on this forum.

I've answered it, its just you don't understand chaos theory and the butterfly effect. Read a book perhaps? Pay attention in maths lessons? Lets say Rob Lee on hearing of Rickie Lambert's hatrick yesterday then had a conversation about it with someone, that then effects the rest of his evening because he misses the call from his wife asking him to pick up some milk on the way home. He then has an argument with his wife and sleeps on the sofa that night. He misses his alarm and is late for the Cup draw, he then puts the balls in differently and picks them out differently to how he would have if Sunderland had won the game. But it doesn't even have to be just Rob Lee, the same is happening to other people and their lives are changed by Saints either winning or losing, this then impacts on the people they interact with, it then impacts on the people they interact with and so on and so on. This could then effect the day of the person that sets up the draw before Rob Lee turns up and if the balls are put in the bag differently then the outcome will be different.

How do you know that? Why aren't the lottery numbers the same every week? Could it be because the conditions they enter the machine aren't the same each time and we then get different outcomes each week? Yes, yes it is and in a similar way a cup draw will be different each time if starting from a different start point of events.

Yes it does prove you are wrong, because we were discussing an alternate reality where Saints had beaten Sunderland and were in the draw for the next round. You appear to think that polar opposite always equal the same outcome and that is quite easily shown to be nonsense.

I've given you an answer.

Was your afternoon yesterday changed by the Saints result? Did it put you in a bad mood? Did you then act differently to how you would have if Saints had won? Did you have conversations you wouldn't have had, go to places you wouldn't have? It all spreads out. Now multiply that and consider all the interactions everyone knowing Saints had won/lost had. It then spreads out across the world and things pan out in a different way even due to a seemingly trivial thing like Saints winning/losing. All these interactions add up and mean Rob Lee wouldn't have put the balls in exactly the same, wouldn't have stirred them the same and wouldn't have picked them out the same.

Yes, we can prove that you are wrong. Lets say your grandfather was shot and killed in a war before your father was conceived, you wouldn't then be born. He wasn't shot, so you were born and the world and everyone you have interacted with is different to how it would have been had the bullet killed him.

I really don't see how this is in the slightest bit relevant. Lets take yesterday, do you not think Saints losing had a negative effect on the mood of pretty much every Saints fan. That would impact on their conversations and actions with everyone they met. Had they won they would have acted differently and had different interactions with the world. Something as seemingly trivial as a football team like Saints winning/losing would effect everyone in the world as people's life would have been different. I really don't see how you can argue against that, and no-one so far has given a good reason why that isn't the case. All people have done is dismiss it.

A theory in science isn't a "guess", it is the best explanation of something with the current evidence.

Correct, the draw would have been different. We still may have got Brighton/Hull away, but it doesn't automatically mean we would have. See this for how something seemingly trivial like missing one tube train can have big knock on effects...

Thank you trousers. Seems its too difficult for many on here to understand.

It doesn't need to be anything major. Rob Lee on seeing Sunderland out of the cup would have even slightly altered his behaviour yesterday, that in turn would mean everything he did afterwards would have been slightly different. Not just Rob Lee, but it would have a knock effect to everyone on the planet even though it seems trivial.

No, I'm just using a mathamatical theory that appears to be flying over some peoples heads.

Being allocated the same number as Sunderland doesn't matter. Saints losing to Sunderland would have knock effects. People's lives would have been altered had Saints won yesterday, including those making the draw. Which would lead them to putting the balls in differently, stirring them differently and picking them out differently.

Its not obvious to a lot of people, many people actually think we would automatically get whoever Sunderland got.