Matthew Le God

Where did I say it was a fact or definitely happening? The question mark in "Our future?" on the first image is significant. However Cortese does so far have a good track record of seeing things through, League One to Premier League in 3 years (not 5 years), £15m training ground development and category one academy. Unlike Pompey for example with images of a new stadium and Mandaric in a digger for the training ground that never happened. I doubt they took the decision to reveal these drawings if they were an unlikely pipe dream, I'd imagine Cortese has stadium redevelopment high on his list for his future for Saints.

How does Goodison Park being bigger, make it better? Fratton Park used to have a capacity of over 50k in the 1950's, does that make it better than St Mary's? You failed to address my point about Everton, they came 7th last year and averaged 33k in a 40k stadium. It being 40k allowed them to boost the average by having some games close to 40k. Saints on the other hand are restricted to 32k and are not able to boost the average with gates close to 40k, despite that even in the relegation season they had an average close to that of Everton finishing 7th in a 40k stadium. Had Saints been in a 40k stadium and finsihed 7th in the Premier League do you think they would average more or less than 33k, given they could boost the average with some attendances close to 40k?

Which is why there is a huge red building to the left of the stadium, with anther building surrounding it. The club will want to expand revenue streams under FFP, not just from ticket sales. It makes sense to invest in projects that open up new sources of revenue. This redevelopment isn't just about more bums on seats.

They aren't in HD, the stream stops and nothing beats the experience of being at the stadium.

Historic attendances - unknown as Saints have only recently moved to a stadium with a capacity in excess of 30,000. Everton last season in coming 7th in the Premier League only averaged 33k in a 40k stadium. Something that Saints would have beaten if they had the same capacity as Everton do. Saints averaged 30k whilst 20th, so to think they couldn't beat 33k whilst 7th and in a 40k stadium is foolish. The big games would sell more and pull the average up. League and Cup performance - yep you are right Everton are better here. That isn't to say it will always be that way, Saints have been restricted for most of their history by other factors, some of which they have now overcome. Population - Yep, Liverpool is bigger than Southampton, but it is a 2 club city and Tranmere is also very close albeit relatively small. There population isn't reflected in their attendances and also have far more in the way of competition surrounding them than Saints do with Pompey and Bournemouth. Infrastructure - I don't know where you are going with this. Goodison Park is not better than St Mary's, yes it is bigger but it is very dated and lacking modern facilities. The Staplewood development is better than Finch Farm and Saints academy is up there with the best in the country as I thought you would already know.

The TV games aren't spread evenly around, some teams get significantly more than others as I'm sure you know. Saints last season were on TV just as much as those at the bottom of the Premier League.

Where have you got your 8k, 4k and 4k figures from? I did say it could be more than 45k, I was only guessing. Maybe it is the figures you use and capacity will go upto 48k.

You are missing a key point. Man Utd to Darlington is easier to compare than Saints to Everton. Darlington is a small market town and struggle to break the 2k mark in a 25k stadium in the 5th tier. Saints averaged circa 22k in the 3rd tier, 26k in the 2nd tier and sold out regularly whilst in the top flight, we don't know what their upper limit is as demand outstrips supply when Saints are in the top flight. Everton averaged 33k during a season of a 7th place finish, despite being able to average 40k in theory but failed.

An ad hoc weighted system of recent generations of attendances, league and cup performance, population size and infrastructure. Which is all a "who is the bigger club?" debate can ever be. It is all very arbitrary and subjective.

Remember everyone, this is the man that says he couldn't find a single person that wanted to go to a Saints game once it had sold out. Hard to take seriously anyone that believes that line of logic.

Man Utd are bigger than Darlington. Happy? Now answer my questions.

32k 7k on Kingland 3k on Chapel 3k on Northam = 45k As I said "maybe more", so could be an extra 3k you talked about (split over the three stands) taking it to 48k.

See my three questions above.

I admitted from those pictures it is hard to tell. It gives you an idea though, and from that I think the Saints plan looks bigger. "Pretty sure" based on what? These plans by Saints weren't done in 2001, how would Cowen or Lowe know what Cortese's architect (probably AFL) could create? The Itchen may be restricted, but in theory why couldn't you put a third tier on the Kingsland? Brighton aren't expanding to 40k, they are expanding eventually to 30k.

As I said earlier, from the admittedly poor internal view it looks to be around 45k (maybe more). But it hard to tell as we both admit.

The reason for lower attendances this season can mainly be put down to being in the 2nd tier. Despite that, a 26,419 average in the 2nd tier is very good - there aren't many English clubs capable of that. Next season the JCL's will return for games in the world's highest profile sporting league.

I'm saying the Saints expansion (from the relatively poor internal views we have at the moment) looks significantly bigger than the 8,250 expansion of the Amex. That would take the total capacity far beyond merely 40,000.

We didn't average below 30,600 whilst in the Premier League at St Mary's - including the year we came 20th and were terrible to watch! All with the unambitious, and lack of investment from Rupert Lowe in the team. What makes you think it will be 28,000 now?

The 8,250 seats Brighton are adding to their stadium don't take up much room, the Saints picture look more substantial in size. If you bothered to read the context of the post, Kraken and I were discussing how big the Saints drawings made the stadium. I was showing him what 8,250 seats looks like when added to an existing stadium, using Brighton as an example. Those 8,250 seats at the Amex compared to the Saints drawings look relatively small.

This is what adding 8,250 seats to Brighton's Amex Stadium looks like.... http://www.thefootballforum.net/index.php?/topic/211717-amex-stadium-expanding/ Saints' plans look a lot more substantial than that.

Mr Kraken, I think you've said before you can see a 40k stadium for Saints at some point in the future. It is hard to tell as you can't see inside the stadium clearly, but what do you think the images look like in terms of capacity? Kingsland, Northam and Chapel all have been expanded, so I would think there is more than just 8k seats added. Those images look more like 45k (possibly more).

Nothing currently on the council's planning website for the stadium... http://publicaccess.southampton.gov.uk/PublicAccess/propdb/property/property_history_summary.aspx?blpukeyval=002MC5OZBU000&lpikeyval=00253AOZLI000&module=P3&historymodule=DC

Do you think these proposals have "character"?

Can someone put the video of just the bit about the stadium on Youtube please?