Matthew Le God

As I have already said on numerous occasions now... in the summer of 2011 I said on this forum that I had been told as things stood only Saints, Chelsea and Man City would get cat 1 status as things stood at that time (i.e. if the audit was done the next day). I did not say that would always remain the case by the time the official audits were done this year, in fact I listed the teams I thought would also get cat 1 status. I made that quite clear at the time. Currently the number of youth systems in the same tier as Saints is 40, under EPPP this will be under 20. It is quite a significant cut. I don't see that number rising hugely over the coming years as it is hard for a Championship club to afford to maintain the running costs and build up in the first place. Southampton on the other hand have gone above and beyond what the criteria asks for and Staplewood is better than a category one training ground needs to be. This is becoming a circular argument because the like of Turkish and Thedelldays appear want to read that I said something completely different to suit their battle against me.

Can you list them please. Remember, we are talking about youngsters from the South West where we have a satellite academy in Bath. So journeys to Manchester, Liverpool etc aren't that easily workable.

You only commented on the first part, not the second. You should be looking at them combined together.

Read it in combination with the second sentence rather than cherry picking.

They do, but given Saints will be by far the closest team to the South West with category 1 status, I think that gives us the advantage. Along with having a better setup, facilities and record bringing through youngsters than a number of other category one clubs.

None of us know the full extents as to the resources currently behind Saints. Staplewood redevelopment, debt free, the Liebherr family background, record signing and big money bids, early stadium redevelopment plans are all indicators that significant money is behind the club. No, I'm not saying we are richer than Arsenal, but if Cortese thinks the club can afford to spend £6m on Butland, what has he done to make us doubt his or his scouts/management/coaching team's opinion?

I didn't say they were under 12, just raising that Saints are scouting for youth team players in that region. The new rules may now allow Saints to bring in under 12's without competition from their local clubs as there would have been before EPPP. The academic part of EPPP makes a tier 1 club more attractive for parent of young footballers as Saints employs teachers on site, allows for more football coaching time and the youngsters will be playing against other elite academies.

This may have changed, but the EPPP document I saw last year has significant differences in terms of coaching hours that a tier one club can have with youngsters and also restricts tier 3 clubs (like Pompey will be) from signing players until they are 12 iirc. If that is how it was finally decided in the final proposal then Saints have an even bigger advantage over Pompey and Bournemouth than they do already, as they can sign up players before the other clubs are even allowed to start working with them. We have already taken Sam Gallagher and Jack Stephens from Plymouth Argyle in the last year, I'd expect even more youngsters from the South West and South Wales to go to the main academy or Bath Satellite as clubs like Bristol City, Bristol Rovers, Yeovil Town, Exeter, Torquay will be restricted from working with youngsters until a later age than Saints as a cat 1 club can.

It can only be labelled overspending if you've seen him play. The Saints scouts have seen him play and if this report is correct, they feel a £6m fee is justified. They haven't got much wrong in the last 3 years.

Why the sarcasm? Why do you think they aren't rivals? Where else do you think youngsters from those regions largely go? With the 90 minute rule no longer an issue for Saints, but remaining an issue for non tier 1 clubs it does give Saints an advantage. As does for example does Portsmouth as a tier 3 club no longer being able to sign 8 year olds and work with them for as many hours as Saints can.

Butland could be our keeper for the next 8 years and he'd still only be 27 and retain a large amount of sell on value. Foster wouldn't as he'd be 37. I haven't seen Butland play but as Dazza82 implied, our scouts haven't got much wrong in the last 3 years. The England setup certainly rate him, so at least that is encouraging.

Brighton, Palace, Charlton in terms of travelling distance. Palace and Charlton both have good academies, Brighton are planning to spend many millions on their academy. All look to be heading for cat 2, Saints can use cat 1 status to attract players in those regions. Portsmouth if they survive the summer will be cat 3 at best. Will make it even easier than it is already to take the best players from the area as cat 3 clubs are restricted as to which players they can sign and work with. Same with Bournemouth. Swansea and Cardiff, relatively close and Saints will be in tiers above both of them. Cardiff investing in youth with new owners but will still only be tier 2. Forest, Ipswich, Leeds, Birmingham, Newcastle all have good academies. All look to be getting category 2 status. Yes, they are much further away but Saints can use cat 1 status as a factor to tempt youngsters to relocate. Those just a few examples, could name a number of others.

Seen him play a lot have you?

All those without category one status, which is going to be roughly 72+ of the 92 clubs in the top four leagues. As opposed to the current 52 clubs that are below Saints academy in terms of tier. I've already listed some in this thread, see post #267. But in particular those of larger clubs close to the 90 minute boundary (which will no longer apply to Saints).

Pompey have gone from being in the same academy league as us in 2011/12, to being a category 3 academy if they are lucky. Will now be even easier to hoover up the best Skate youngsters like Ward-Prowse and Oxlade-Chamberlain (not that it was that hard before ).

The number of top tier youth teams is being reduced from 40 clubs in 4 leagues of 10, to 18 to 20 clubs in possibly one league of 18/20 teams (maybe two leagues of 9/10 teams). That is a significant cut in the number of top tier youth teams. Saints are now going to be at a higher level than that of Newcastle, Leeds, Nottingham Forest, Ipswich, Charlton, Leicester etc etc. Last season they were at the same level.

I'm not getting confused at all. The FA in the summer of 2011 carried out preliminary audits to see at what level academies currently stand. Since then teams have been able to meet issues raised last summer. All I said was as things currently stand in June 2011, Saints, Chelsea and Man City would get cat 1 status if the official audit were to take place. The official audits have been taking place from March/April 2012 onwards and only now are we finding out the results. At no point did I say only Chelsea, Man City and Saints would get cat 1 status. At the time I even listed the other clubs I thought would make it. There is still some exclusivity about it, the number of top tier youth teams is being reduced from 40 clubs in 4 leagues of 10, to 18 to 20 clubs in possibly one league of 18/20 teams (maybe two leagues of 9/10 teams).

There are currently 40 teams in the academy system. These are pretty much being split in two with Saints in the top tier with around 20 of the best academies. Teams like Palace, Newcastle, Leeds, Forest, Ipswich etc no longer will be in the same league system as Southampton beyond the first year. Saints also no longer will be restricted by the 90 minute rule as they are currently as to where they can get youngsters from. At the moment a lot of Saints area is in the English Channel! As a category one club this will no longer be the case.

The audit is by an independent Belgian company. In theory they should give category 1 status to any club that fulfils the requirements regardless of how many other clubs have it already. I would say the bar will be raised in the future, but unlikely by the time the next audits come round in 2 to 3 years time.

It will make a huge difference, Saints as a category one club are no longer restricted by the 90 minute rule. Clubs in lower tiers will still be. Also category one status allows clubs to have more training time with players. More coaching time generally results in better players.

Yes, because I made that comment in the summer of 2011 when the outline and preliminary visits had taken place. Even at the time I said there would be more than 3 teams that get it. All I said was that as things currently stand (in summer 2011) only 3 would get it. There was never going to be a category one league with only 3 teams in it. What has happened is that the top tier of youth football is being halved in terms of numbers from 40 to 18/20. Saints will be towards the top end of those 18/20 teams.

And what did I say after that?... It is going from a 40 team top tier of youth football in 2011/12 to a 18 to 20 team top tier of youth football in 2012/13. There will be half the number of teams in the top tier, Saints will remain in the top tier. Can you not see how that benefits Saints?

Look at the local area, last season Saints and Pompey were both in the same academy league. Next season Saints will be in the category 1 league, Pompey in the category 3 league.

Category 1-4 didn't exist when Saints were in League 1. This is starting next season. Until now it has been a two tier system, 40 clubs are in the academy system (4 leagues of 10), the rest have centres of excellence.

Clubs have been spending in order to reach the cat 1 benchmark, EPPP has significantly raised spending in academies. Saints have gone over and above what is required and will be at the higher end of the cat 1 clubs. As I've said twice now, at the moment it is a 2 tier system with Saints in the top tier, it is becoming a 4 tier system with Saints in the top tier. Who said that? I certainly didn't.