Matthew Le God

£30 for a game vs Doncaster, Brighton, Palace, Reading, West Ham, Portsmouth, Coventry in the 2nd tier, with 2nd tier Saints players and in a recession didn't stop them being sellouts.

Stoneham was a distinct possibility and nearly happened. Cortese charging £50 next season is unlikely to say the least. Plus... you claim you don't want to talk hypothetically yet... This whole thread is hypothetical, it is hard for it not to be given its very nature of being a thread called "5 year plan"!

Or is that because you don't like the answer you would have to give as it goes against your waiting list theory? So instead you try to dismiss and discredit it. Please answer my revised question about Stoneham. This whole thread is hypothetical, it is hard for it not to be given its very nature of being a thread called "5 year plan"!

Okay, what if there were 15k season ticket holders and no waiting list? Similar to what we have today, yet even in the Championship, a capacity of 25k at Stoneham Stadium would be too small.

If a 25,000 Stoneham Stadium had been built in the late 90's and Saints had 19k season ticket holders, 24,500 average and no waiting list what would you have said if people on a forum wanted to expand to 32,600?

Wolves currently building and will go upto 36k (possibly 50k at some point), Chelsea looking at Battersea with a 60k stadium, Liverpool looking to move, Everton looking to move, Tottenham looking to move, Reading planning to expand to 38k, Cardiff looking to expand to 35k etc etc etc. Larger stadiums will be key with FFP coming into force, which is why so many clubs are looking into it and Cortese has been talking about it. As I said... I'm intrigued to see your answer to the question regarding waiting lists in post #1051.

I'm intrigued to see your answer to the question regarding waiting lists in post #1051.

Do you think I should change Cortese's nationality to Italian? At the moment I have him as Swiss, with Italian as 2nd nationality as I like there being a Swiss flag on the staff profile screen.

I didn't say they actually existed did I? You are taking it out of context.

I think it is a safe assumption to make that if a club can average over 30k in a 32k stadium whilst 20th and relegated then it can and should expand if it has ambitions of being over 10 places higher. Lets apply your waiting list logic here... If a 25,000 Stoneham Stadium had been built in the late 90's and Saints had 19k season ticket holders, 24,500 average and no waiting list what would you have said if people on a forum wanted to expand to 32,600?

I think you will find both of us have people on these forums supporting our views and probably the majority in the middle of the two viewpoints.

Can the same not be said of those claiming Saints don't need to expand?

What point are you trying to make here with such a statement? Saints have shown for a Premier League side they can sell out St Mary's vs a top side or bottom side regardless of if Saints are in mid table or in the relegation zone. You are the one bringing up cup matches whilst in the 3rd tier, expansion decisions won't be made on such games. Plus... 1) Still no mention from you of which League One game Leeds linked the Tottenham game. So it is not "absolutely like for like" as you claimed. 2) No comment on my point that Man Utd put out a reserve side and Saints rested a few players. Compared with Leeds and Tottenham both putting out strong sides.

1) It wasn't 10,000 more fans. 2) You still haven't told me which low profile League One game Leeds linked the Tottenham game with? 3) Why comparison with Leeds? I have at no point claimed Saints are bigger than Leeds. 4) You haven't explained why Everton vs Chelsea on a satellite channel and not linked to a low profile League One game had a lower attendance than Saints vs Man Utd on terrestrial TV on the same day?

Turkish pretty much says that when he claims that when Saints sold out everyone that wanted a ticket could get one.

Are you going to expand on that with any reasons why it might not be? At a guess you will say the recession, but that didn't stop Saints averaging over 26,483 in the 2nd tier this season, in a league with lower away followings.

Which League One game did Leeds link the Tottenham game with? Does ITV 4 have the same exposure as ITV 1? and so on... (I would ask more questions but I doubt the first two will be answered)

Yes, but not Leeds. So why did you bring them up when I didn't? Correct, though actually read what I said about it. Tottenham and Leeds both put out strong teams. Man Utd put out a reserve side and even League One Saints rested players. Correct, but read my points in full. It was on ITV 4, the Saints game was on ITV 1. Not like for like. Wrong on the attendances. You also haven't responded to every point I made. Cherry picking them. One thing you missed out (amongst others) the Man Utd game was linked to another low profile 3rd tier game so would cost a Saints fan ALOT more than a Leeds fan. Saints vs Man Utd had a bigger attendance than Everton vs Chelsea on the same day. Thoughts on that?

It isn't like for like as that doesn't match all the points I raised. I said don't isolate them, look at the as a collective. Nor did I ever claim Saints were bigger than Leeds.

Well that is pointless, as I listed a number of factors that should be used as a whole to explain Saints attendance. Nor did I bring up a comparison with Leeds.

1) I said "Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance". Can ALL of those factors be applied to your example? 2) Have I compared Saints to Leeds? No, so why have you?

Again, not a like for like comparison. - That game was in the FA Cup. - Saints fans beforehand knew Man Utd would likely put out a B team (and they did), and Saints would rest players and not have a full strength side (which also happened) - The Saints team was a team in League One, any future games will be with Saints with a Premier League squad and Premier League players to cheer on, not 3rd tier players. - It was live on terrestrial TV - In order to get a ticket if not a season ticket holder you had to buy it in conjunction with another low profile League One game, so for a non season ticket holding adult it would cost £57! - Despite all of that it was still the biggest attendance in England on that day (despite Saints being a 3rd tier team), it even beat the attendance for the Everton vs Chelsea game at Goodison Park on the same day. Please don't isolate any of those factors in your response, look at them as a collective to explain the attendance.

Infrastructure spending is exempt from FFP rules. Spending £15 million on a training ground from a £350m fortune has far more impact than it would if coming out of a £3 billion fortune. As would any stadium upgrade or relocation. It is still 6,000 lower. Saints aren't expanding for next season. Why does it have to be next season? My point was long term Saints are in a stronger position as their academy has been far more successful.

You are just digging a bigger hole for yourself. More Saints fans saw Saints vs Bolton (a sellout), than they did Saints vs Man Utd (a sellout) due to Bolton bringing fewer fans so more availble for home fans. Are you telling us you think fewer people were interested in the Man Utd game than the Bolton game? And had St Mary's been bigger more people wouldn't turn up? Come Turkish, actually think for a minute about what you are saying! Saints were even able to sell out or get close to selling out whilst in League One and the Championship. When some of the biggest teams in the world turn up they are far more attractive. As aintforever said, a game vs Chelsea sold out 6 hours after going on sale.

Not really comparable... - Steve Morgan worth £350 million - Estate of Markus Liebherr worth £3 billion - Saints average attendance next season likely to be circa 31,000 - Wolves average attendance this season in Premier League was 25,672 - Saints academy is far more successful than Wolves academy