Matthew Le God

Do you wish Saints stayed at The Dell?

You really don't understand the concept of a casual fan do you? Saints sold 50k tickets for the JPT Final and could have sold 60k to 70k if allowed. The League One game before had only 18,072. A chance to see Saints at Wembley saw a high % of that supposed 200k turn up. Big games, equal big crowds. The Premier League provides 19 big games (some much bigger than others).

- Leeds did sell out in the Premier League in a 39k stadium. - Saints did sell out in the Premier League in a 32k stadium. Saints average more than Leeds in the Championship.

Arsenal make more money from their corporate areas at the Emirates than they do from all other seating areas combined. If Goodison Park improved corporate facilites, they could increase revenue significantly. More money, better team, happier fans. Look at the video I posted and you will see it still would retain the "character" of Goodison Park.

What about one like this... [video=youtube;HwgCvO8-6fM]

Had England won the 2018 bid, Sheff Wed upto 44,000 and Leeds over 50k. Do you think Leeds and Sheff Weds would need a ground that big in the Premier League? If yes, then why not Saints, as Saints average more than both of them.

They are averaging 29,754 not 35,000. Less than Saints did in any season at St Mary's in the top flight. A new or improved stadium would also open up new revenue streams.

Saints are averaging more than Leeds at the moment. Both teams are doing well in the same league. Explain that? Also Sheff Weds average in League One far less than Saints did in League One. Explain that? Do you think they both should have the circa 40k stadium they do?

Goodison Park is one of the main factors holding them back from progressing.

Only 19 league games in the Premier League. Supposedly 200k+ unique customers on the Saints customer ticket database. The draw of Premier League football will attract many casual Saints fans from that number to two or three games per season that they wouldn't have gone to in the 2nd or 3rd tier of English football. You will also get neutrals wanting to watch games just because it is the closest Premier League venue to them. I think you underestimate the appeal of top flight football for casual fans compared to games in the Championship and League One.

This is exactly what Turkish struggles to realise.

Exactly! Close to 44k for... Man Utd Arsenal Man City Chelsea Spurs Liverpool 34k to 38k for... Villa Sunderland Everton Newcastle 30k to 34k for the other 9 games

You make this all far too easy. If Everton are "far bigger", why are they averaging less than Saints did in every Premier League campaign at St Mary's (including the year we came 20th and were relegated)? Same with Villa, had St Mary's been the size of Villa Park, Saints would have averaged more than 33k. All it would have taken is a higher than 32k attendance against Man Utd and Arsenal to do that.

Well it depends how many years of selling more seats you look at. If St Mary's is expanded, it isn't for one season it is now larger for every season from that point onwards.

You keep talking about the other thread saying people found it easy, but that isn't the case. Many games against lesser Premier League clubs sold out without going on general sale. It is easy to buy a ticket when a game hasn't sold out. Had they left it later and the game had sold out, they wouldn't have found it easy. It is nonsense logic you use. Saints Clark has already attempted to point this out to you.

How do you know?

Well as soon as the "sold out" sign went up on the electronic board and on the website, why would any sane person try to buy a ticket from the ticket office?

I'm sure you have previously conceded Saints would get higher attendances than 32k for some games. That would result in a higher average attendance and more income. A stadium improvement is for the long term, if St Mary's went upto 44k in 2015 it would probably be similar in 2035. Lots of game in that time to bring in extra revenue plus the value of Saints as an asset goes up if the infrastructure is improved. And as I said that is nonsense. Even games against the smaller sides sold out without reaching general sale. If the brought tickets before it sold out, of course they wouldn't have a problem. It is only once it sells out you have a problem, and St Mary's did, on many occasions against big and small teams. In any case, how do you know it wouldn't be improved (I'm guessing you mean in quality of other areas), just expanded? Why does an expansion of infrastructure not mean a higher sell on value for the club? If you run a B&B and build another room and rent it out, you get extra rent, plus if you sell the B&B you can sell it for more than if you didn't have the extra bedroom.

The last time Saints played Bolton in the Premier League at St Mary's in midweek the home end sold out!

If the stadium is improved, the value of the club goes up. They recoup the money when the club is sold. They also benefit from higher average attendances up until the point it is sold. It wasn't "easy" to get tickets for a number of the lesser Premier League matches. Many sold out, some didn't even reach general sale.

Did I say it would be easy? No I didn't. Did I compare getting from 68th to 21st with 21st to 5th or 4th? No I didn't. What I said was that his ambition and the resources required to achieve those ambitions have so far been met. So why should you doubt him heavily when he reveals further ambitions? He has done little to cause people to questions he has the resources to match ambitions so far. Never in the history of the club have Saints had owners with both ambition or the resources to help achieve those ambitions. Rupert Lowe for example was never really that ambitious with Saints and he didn't invest anything of note into the club. We have entered unknown territory of a Saints owner with ambition and resources. Rupert Lowe achieved a cup final, 8th place finish and 30k+ averages under his tenure without investment. Lets see what Cortese/Liebherr can do with investment...

You keep going on about "turning fans away". That simply wouldn't happen and didn't happen last time Saints were in the Premier League. Saints sold tickets to season ticket holders and members, for some games it didn't even reach general sale before it sold out. Once a game is sold out you don't need to "turn away" people because there are aware there is nothing to buy. What do you count as "compelling evidence"? Why wouldn't they see a return on it? It adds value to the club for the point in the future that they sell it on. If it did cost £36 million, the stadium could well be in place for decades to come. The money would be recouped by the club. In any case £36m is small change to a billionaire and as it is the estate of Liebherr owning the club it may have been his wish to see his money used to improve the future of the club and its infrastructure.

How is that relevant? The point is, a number of people have proved you wrong as they have stated they struggled to get tickets. You also forget that in the Premier League there was a membership scheme for Saints. Some games didn't even reach general sale! Are you suggesting every Saints fan was either a season ticket holder or a member?

He knows the financial backing available to him, we don't. If he said this, he has shown little reason to doubt his resources don't match his ambitions so far. Saints have gone from 68th in England when he took charge, to 21st in England in two and a half years. They are building a training ground that wouldn't look out of place at a top 5 side. Why bother with that level of investment if you don't aim to compete? They could have built a cheaper one but decided not to. Why do you doubt Premier League football wouldn't see a return to 30k+ averages at St Mary's. The 7 year gap means little, as soon as the Premier League is the product the casual Saints fans will flood back. Just look at the West Ham game for example. A tuesday night in the second tier against a relatively glamourous side and we have an all time club record. There are a number of more attractive fixtures than that should Saints be promoted and have a team of internationals of their own to watch.

There you go Turkish!