Matthew Le God

- Segregation leads to varying reduced capacities on a game by game basis. - Not all games sold out, but many did. Indicating there is a demand for more seats.

Saints are currently averaging 23,941 in the Championship, which is very good and is currently only behind West Ham and Derby County. It is likely to climb higher than that after boxing day and New Years home games, last home game, Pompey, Brighton, West Ham etc fixtures. Saints are currently averaging more than Leeds United, Leicester City and Nottingham Forest. All of which are big clubs, Leeds have a 40k stadium themselves. Once in the Premier League the season ticket holders are likely to return to similar levels and a 7k leap and the demand will also increase.

Why is four years of 30k+ averages and many sellouts in the last decade in a 32k stadium, not evidence in your eyes?

Yes, but if we knew the team had a good chance of being in the top half then more would want to go. Plus as the season went on and the fanbase could see it was going to be a struggle a lot of the "glory supporters" would not turn up as often. Yet the walkups still led the club with roughly 21k season ticket holders to average over 30k.

For a large part of the season (if not all of it) you had a good indication it wasn't going to end well. People still turned up though and the average was 30k+. Even the season ticket holders when buying in the summer would have known the prospects weren't great going into that season.

I didn't at any point say it would be large numbers coming from Devon and Cornwall. You are just putting words in my mouth now.

So you are suggesting that a Saints match in a relegation season like 2004/05, is just as attractive to the non hardcore Saints fans as those matches in the 2002/03 season when we came 8th?

And you need a reading lesson, because at no point did I say there would be significant numbers of Janners filling up a 50k stadium.

Four years in the Premier League at a 32k St Mary's saw four years of 30k+ average attendances and numerous sellouts. Why does that not count as evidence?

Games were selling out (and getting close to sell outs) when Saints were in the relegation zone. A team with investment competing towards the top of the league will see interest increase significantly.

That doesn't answer it at all. Once a game has sold out why would you try and buy tickets? Yes, some may not be aware it has sold out, but the majority will especially once they get used to sell outs on a regular basis. Hence why we had games sell out in a matter of hours/days after going on sale.

And you failed to give an answer.

Games were selling out in the year Saints finished 20th in the Premier League. If Saints were to get to 6th regularly as you say, the demand would much higher than 32k. I don't see why you think this is such a strange conclusion to make.

So you think there was the same level of demand for a game against Charlton in the Premier League as was against Man Utd in the Premier League? Both games sold out in the past. You are suggesting that Saints level of support maxes out dead on 32k and a fixture against Man Utd wouldn't attract more fans than one against a smaller team like Charlton.

At no point have I put a figure on it in terms of numbers, of course it wouldn't be huge. As I child I went with my Plymouth based youth team to a number of Premier League games at the Dell over the years. I doubt they would have bothered with Siants whilst the club was in the 2nd and 3rd tiers in recent years given Argyle were playing similar teams. I know a few clubs and schools that did similar, this type of thing would return once Saints are in the top flight.

And how often are Liverpool or Man Utd etc etc likely to play Plymouth, Exeter or Torquay in the foreseeable future? Sitting in the home end at St Mary's is their next best option. Plus Devon/Cornwall Schools and local youth teams can have trips to the local big league team as treats, especially if St Mary's is made bigger and allows more flexibility for group deals.

From personal experience, a lot of those in the West Country don't support their three local clubs, in any case even Plymouth, Exeter and Torquay fans might fancy watching the odd live Premier League game. St Mary's would be there best option even if they only have a passing interest in Saints, they may want to see Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal etc and can;t do that at Home Park, St James Park or Plainmoor.

You could even go into Devon and Cornwall, if anyone from there wanted to watch some Premier League football even if just a couple of games a year, St Mary's (if Saints were promoted) would be their best option.

The proposed Stoneham project in the late 1990's was going to be for a 25k seater stadium. Do you not agree they got the demand wrong for that given the averages average attendance of 30k+ at St Mary's? I already have answered that in post #51

What evidence do you think they need? Given the last time Saints were in the Premier League they can be pretty certain of a return to 30k+ averages in a 32k seater stadium. Plus this time it seems there will be more investment to make the club more competitive at a higher level than under Rupert Lowe between 2001 and 2005. Then it becomes something of a catch 22 situation about season ticket holder numbers. Last time in the Premier League I believe STH numbers were around the 22k mark, however a larger stadium allows for more flexible pricing strategies and offers, until you have the larger stadium you can't implement these.

So you think Oldham 49k, Bolton 69k, Burnley 54k, Port Vale 49k etc etc with their old records attendances all have larger fanbases than Southampton in 2011? Consider that their stadiums were much larger than the Dell ever was and these records are mostly 50 - 80 years ago when there was little else in the way of entertainment. Saints were restricted at the Dell and football in England has moved on since those days. There is a big difference between using Chelsea crowds in 1995 like I did (and you have taken out of context) and you using Sunderland crowds from 1933!

Most of them would be in the upper tier, so we can be segregated from them.

A nonsense argument! - Saints have never had a stadium with a capacity larger than 32k, so it isn't a fair comparison. Saints couldn't fit more than 32k in either the Dell or St Mary's. That doesn't mean they couldn't have if the stadiums were larger. - That Sunderland record was 78 years ago so not relevant really for today. Crowds were simply much larger all over the country in the late 20's, 30's,, 40's and 50's and Saints were restricted by the size of the Dell. Oldham Athletic for example have a record crowd of 47,671 at around the same time as the Sunderland one. Does that mean Oldham in 2011 have a much larger fanbase than Southampton?

Well do you not agree it would be foolish to think Saints coming 20th in the Premier League and averaging 30, 610, that season would not attract significantly larger numbers if they were fighting it out towards the top of the league? The average whilst in a relegation campaign of over 30k is evidence in itself that at 32k the stadium is too small. As for your other questions... How many fans were getting turned away when we were in the Premier League? You are right I don't know, nor do you. But the club would know, so Cortese knows and he is the one that has decided a stadium of 44k - 50k is feasible. I doubt he takes such decisions lightly. Also, many wouldn't have tried to buy tickets once the sold out banner went up. Plus a larger stadium allows for more flexible ticketing promotions, free tickets to schools, family deals etc etc all of which would boost the crowds. How many games were selling out "well in advance"? How long is "well in advance"? As someone else mentioned, a game against Chelsea sold out in 6 hours. I remember games in the Premier League that sold out one or two weeks before the day of the game. Once that happens people stop trying to get tickets because they would know none are available.

Even in the Premier League 2004/05 relegation year Saints averaged over 30k. Only 10 current Premier League teams managed that last season. Imagine the interest if the club was actually any good in the Premier League!? Those four years and St Mary's in the Premier League consisted of 3 mid table finishes and one 20th place finish. All of which averaged over 30k in a 32k stadium. Any hint of success will see a surge in interest amongst the fanbase to see some of the mere 19 home league games per season. Plus, see my comments above regarding Sunderland. They went from 10k season ticket holders (with no waiting list) to a 49k stadium.