Matthew Le God

What in that post do you have an issue with then? Just because four or five people have been against me in this thread doesn't mean there aren't other that agree with me, they may just not be as bloody-minded/sad as me in a debate and not want to get involved. However, many of the accusations of the way I am persistent with making points can also be directed at those on the other side of the argument, such as yourselves.

Yes they have won more, but their last domestic win of note was 50 years ago so not really that relevant to the size of a club today. In those last 50 years it has seen Saints with higher league placings, better cup performance and better attendances. You say "less of the plastic support we have" but what is that meant to mean? As recently as the 1980's Wolves were averaging 4k for league games, does that not make current Wolves fans plastic?

Because they are surrounded by loads of competing clubs and need to test the water with a 36k stadium. It is also coming at quite an expense and don't have a backer as rich as the Liebherr estate. They also have no recent history of sustained 30k+ crowds like Saints do. The last time Wolves averaged 30k+ was 41 years ago the last time Saints did was a mere 6 years ago!

I didn't overlook the other eight clubs. See post #170 where I said... "Most are smaller clubs and have seen huge rises, those that haven't seen large rises are restricted by stadium capacity." If you want I'll go through them...(note he uses the phrase "comparable clubs") Norwich - 26,200 from 25,400 - probably capacity; Restricted by Carrow Road capacity and they are looking to expand. QPR - 15,700 from 16,600 - probably capacity; Not a similar size to Saints and have huge ticket prices in a dated stadium Swansea - 19,800 from 15,500 (+27.7%) Close to capacity and a smaller club than Saints Newcastle - 44,800 from 43,400 - not sure if this is capacity but thought Newcastle had 50k + capacity so therefore a very big club that has shown no real increase; A larger club than Saints and so not comparable. West Brom - 24,200 from 22,200 (+9%); Restricted by the Hawthorns capacity and smaller club than Saints. Blackpool - 15,800 from 8,600 (+83.7%); A huge increase of 83.7% actually goes against his argument and in any case they are much smaller than Saints. Wolves - 24,000 from 24,200 - virtually same; As we have been through, restricted by capacity and they are currently rebuilding upto 36k and possibly 38k - 50k. Brum - 25,461 from 19,000 (+34%); Smaller fanbase than Saints so not comparable. Burnley - 20,653 from 13,100 (+57.6%). Like with Blackpool a much smaller team than Saints thus not comparable as he states and in any case a 57.6% increase goes against his own argument. Anyone that thinks that is a list of "comparable clubs" to Saints is insane! Egg you have already made it clear that you do.

You drew comparisons with Wolves because you referred me to Poking Fun's post, where he said Saints were comparable to Wolves. Can you not see how you are contradicting yourself?

Bloody hell this is difficult. Wolves went from 24k in the Championship to 28k in the Premier League. They couldn't get any higher than 28k, because Molineux wasn't any bigger than than. In the summer the capacity was reduced to 24k when they knocked down the Stan Cullis Stand to rebuild it. It is now partially complete and have started using parts of it.

Yep, Egg is making himself look foolish by contradicting himself.

Make up your mind! Earlier today you said this... Which suggests you do think Wolves are relevant. And you call me simple! Try not to contradict yourself too much!

Wolves announced this whilst they were in the relegation zone and said it would go ahead regardless of relegation to the Championship. They were hardly "established in the Premier League" at the time. If you call for Saints to "have evidence", what evidence do you think the professionals in charge at Wolves used? It is not me being "simple".

You make this too easy! The capacity of Molineux during early stage of construction of the Stan Cullis Stand was circa 24k as they had to knock it down. Poking Fun's post was ill-informed (as are you) and it certainly isn't talking "overwhelming sense" as you describe. Poking Fun even describes Wolves as comparable to Saints. So why don't you want to compare them if you think he speaks with such "overwhelming sense"?

So because Wolves aren't Saints, they don't need the same levels of evidence in order to expand their stadium?

Why isn't the Wolves redevelopment relevant? Why do you complain about me "going on" when I raise a question you can't (or don't want to answer)?

80 points has been the level of 3rd place in recent history... 2010/11 3rd place 80 points 2009/10 3rd place 79 points 2008/09 3rd place 80 points 2007/08 3rd place 75 points

So what evidence do you think Wolves used to increase to 36k (and have future plans for 50k)?

No, this is what Jez Moxy said in the press conference to unveil the plans for Molineux. There were going ahead with them regardless of relegation or not and have nearly finished one stand already and are using bits of it on matchdays at the moment.

Lots of improvements to the match viewer this year, plus footage of Saints in FM12...

You've lost me as to how those teams are comparable or the stats are relevant. Most are smaller clubs and have seen huge rises, those that haven't seen large rises are restricted by stadium capacity. I wonder what evidence Wolves based their decision to increase capacity to 36k, and have future plans for 38k and then 50k.... They were going ahead with this regardless of relegation last season.

It answers all of your points, and you haven't tried to make a rebuttal of any of them. Plus, how can you have evidence of more than 32k averages in a 32k stadium?

So why in 1995/96 when they won the 2nd tier did they average 17,504 in a 22,000 stadium? So then why do many of the teams I listed offer many away teams more than 3,000? It is inevitable a larger stadium leads to more away fans for some games and more "plastic" home fans. Ah...the petty insults return.

Waiting lists Sunderland had 10k season ticket holder and no waiting list before moving to a 42k (later expanded to 49k) Stadium of Light. They were also struggling in the years leading up to the move from selling out a 22k Roker Park. Waiting lists as a condition is a nonsense. Fans complaining they cant get in We had that last time in the Premier League. Even had it in League One against Walsall (yes was a promotion party but essentially was still a 3rd tier fixture). Will possibly even have it later this season vs Pompey and if a promotion campaign heats up. Match tickets selling out quick Happened last time Saints were in the Premier League for a large number of fixtures. Upturn in economic conditions Stadium improvements are exempt from new financial regulations and now in some ways is a good time to expand if the Liebherr's have the capital, as construction is cheaper then when the world economy recovers. Away teams wanting more tickets Do you not think Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Newcastle, Man Utd, Liverpool, Everton, Aston Villa etc would love to bring more than 3,000 fans to St Mary's and could quite easily do that.

As I asked Egg, what evidence would you want if you were Cortese in order to justify an expansion?

So what evidence would you want if you were Cortese in order to justify an expansion?

So you think the difference in attractiveness of a fixture between one against Bolton and one against the current (at the time) Champions of the country Arsenal is possibly just 100 people? Does common sense not tell you that is unlikely?

I think you can apply that to more than just me in this thread.

So if it is a sell out of 32,151 like it was against Arsenal in 2003, you think not a single other person in the world wanted to go to that fixture if a larger capacity meant more tickets were available? Similar numbers were going to games at St Mary's that season against Norwich, Birmingham and Bolton, do you not think a tie against the Premier League Champions (at the time) Arsenal is not vastly more attractive as a fixture?