Sheaf Saint

Who???? Where???? You and your strawmen Delldays! Honestly! Try reading people's posts once in a while instead of deciding you already know what they are trying to say based on opinions they may or may not have expressed previously.

Firstly, I have never used the term Gypsy myself throughout the course of this thread, except when quoting others. I am referring to travellers and there is an important distinction. My assertion was made from the personal experiences of people I know who have come into contact with these groups and ended up being the victims of theft and/or criminal damage. I was recently listening to On The Ropes on Radio 4, and the subject being interviewed was a guy who was brought up within the traveller community (though he did specify that his family were actually Gypsies of Romany descent) who was disowned by his family due to his sexuality. He recounted stories of how his father and uncles would routinely steal and scam people for money, and that this was inherent within their culture as they didn't work and needed to earn a living somehow. When one of their own goes on national radio and admits something like that, do you not think that it is worth paying attention to?

Oh don't be such a mong. I gave you an infraction for posting a racist comment, which I duly retracted when you explained that it was posted in sarcasm and you had neglected to use any smileys to convey that. I never had you down as as much of a troll as dune and Turkish, but clearly you want to be in the cool kids' gang and act like a complete **** as well.

dune, you're really not fooling anyone with your mock outrage at some non-existent racism. You also seem to be confused. I thought I was supposed to be a member of your Liberal Elite? How can a wishy-washy liberal who believes in equality for everyone be accused of being a bigot and a racist? Unlike many, I don't have an inherrent (sic) dislike of people who are different to me. Due to my own personal experiences, I am just wary of those whose comrades have such a terrible reputation, regardless of their ethnic group, and to be otherwise would be foolhardy and naive. By labelling me a racist because of this you think you are making yourself look big and clever, but believe me you aren't. Still evading the Maynard question eh?

Dune, stop it now - really. You're just being a childish pr1ck, as usual. There is absolutely nothing RACIST in what I posted and you damn-well know it. No I do not have any statistics because there probably aren't any official ones, seeing as most of the people involved do not exist as far as the state is concerned. How do you keep statistics about people who do not appear on any databases? You just need to ask the experiences of the local residents where travellers have been living nearby and you will have all the information you need. Still evading the question about Mr Maynard I see. Quelle surprise.

Dune how old are you? seriously? For what it's worth, seeing as I must be a member of your Liberal Elite about which you seem to have such an unhealthy obsession, I personally do defend the rights of people to live their life according to whatever values they wish, as long as it dos not impinge on the rights of others to do the same. As many posters have already confirmed, this particular group of travellers under discussion have no doubt already caused many problems within the communities they have chosen to inhabit, as do many others. It isn't racism, or any kind of 'ism' as far as I am concerned. Although, it has not gone un-noticed by me that one of the very first people to mention the term Gypsies on this thread was you. The simple fact is that a large majority of travellers are thieves who force their way onto private land, steal property and leave a huge mess behind them when they are finally (rightly) evicted. Therefore it is not unreasonable for people to be extra vigilant with the security of their property when there are travellers in the area. This is not to say that all travellers are like this... I know that isn't the case. But you and your sidekick Turkish appear to be advocating that we should all just drop our guard and welcome them into our communities with open arms because they have the same human rights as the rest of us. Now, any chance of you ever explaining what it was about Paul Maynard's speech you found so hilarious?

Then perhaps you could enlighten us as to exactly what you were laughing at, seeing as you successfully evaded the question on at least four occasions on that thread. Then again, perhaps you can't... or won't.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14322449.stm Good news I reckon. I know these kind of things tend to even themselves out, but the repercussions for a club when a ref / linesman gets it wrong can be devastating. Wasn't it Bolton who ended up getting relegated due to a perfectly good goal being disallowed back in the 90s? One aspect of this article confuses me slightly though... Given FIFA's current credibility and the English FA's recent boycott of the presidential vote, why the hell should we wait for permission from an inept and most-likely corrupt organisation? If the FA want to introduce it then I don't see any reason why they couldn't just go ahead without FIFA's blessing.

The only potential racist comment I have seen is from TDD referring to them as 'Gypos', although he appears to be in your camp of trying to get a rise out of the Liberal Elite ™ on the issue. You will need to improve on your trolling skills in this case methinks.

This would be a half-decent attempt to get a rise were it not for one important point dune: that this thread is about a single group of Irish travellers who have pitched up in Hedge End. Nobody has mentioned Romany Gypsies. five out of ten for trying though.

True, and it would be quite arrogant of me to claim that none exists purely because I have never seen it. But I have made a point of reading as much as I can about the Afghan situation, as it is literally history in the making and it interests me greatly. So as neither I nor Verbal, whom I know from previous discussions has extensive first-hand experience of the region, are aware of any intelligence which indicates that the Afghan Taleban are training Jihadis for martyrdom in the west, I would be very interested to know what information you have which contradicts the general consensus, and I will happily be proved wrong.

I thought Barnsley were the dingles? they are called that round this part of Yorkshire anyway.

So many things wrong with your assertions here I'm afraid stu0x. Firstly, as Verbal rightly points out, there is no evidence at all that the Afghan Taleban are engaged in training martyrs and suicide bombers to attack western countries. That is not, and never has been, their aim. All the Taleban ever wanted was to rule over a pure Islamic state where people would be forced under threat of execution to follow their fundamentalist ideology. The only connection they have to Al-Qaeda is that they (or rather, Mullah Omar personally) decided to grant asylum to AQ and Bin Laden when they were looking for a safe haven to hide from the Americans in the aftermath of 9/11. This decision was made because they share similar religious doctrine, but they did not share AQ's agenda of taking the holy war to the western world. It was a decision they very soon regretted when they realised that the Americans would attack anyway, and there were attempts to distance themselves from AQ during the build-up to the invasion. Were the Taleban ever to regain full governmental control of the country, given the events of the last ten years, do you really think they would be so stupid as to invite Al-Qaeda back into the country? The Americans have used the decade-long conflict as an excuse to establish permanent military bases in surrounding countries such as Uzbekistan, and would not think twice about launching attacks if they thought for one moment that Al-Qaeda had resumed their training camps in Afghanistan. There is an excellent book published around 2008, the title of which I must confess to paraphrasing in my original post, called Descent Into Chaos by Ahmed Rashid. It is a lengthy and slow-going book but worthwhile as it is very informative, not just about the recent political history of Afghanistan and Pakistan, but it also gives a fascinating insight into the tribal mindset of the various different peoples inhabiting the region.

Because it highlights the disparity in our British culture where fame and excess is celebrated and lauded upon by the press, whilst far more important issues are largely ignored.

It's a very sad state of affairs isn't it.

It occurs to me that her tragic early death is what the media wanted all along, and that is why they gave her so much attention when nobody else really gave a damn. She was a wonderfully talented singer/songwriter, I will admit, but was she really worthy of the amount of press attention that she received? I think not. All the tabloid media saw was a train-wreck about to happen, and they wanted to be there at the moment of impact so they could present their own world exclusive. Gingeletiss's point (about the disproportionate amount of press coverage her untimely demise has generated in comparison to the deaths of British soldiers killed on active duty, ostensibly defending our nation from the vastly over-exaggerated threat of terrorism) is a salient one IMO. The Mirror have run with the Winehouse story on their front page for the last four days in succession, and The Sun even had an 8-page commemorative pullout section about her the other day for pity's sake. Why should the death of a singer, talented or otherwise, be the focus of such huge front-page headlines when the story of a soldier KIA is barely even mentioned any more?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14304650 What with the recent assassination of Ahmad Wali Karzai as well, isn't it time that our leaders faced up to the inevitable in Afghanistan: That no matter how long our troops remain there, the local security forces will never have full control of the country. Anybody with even the slightest knowledge of Afghanistan's history will surely be aware that there is just no way that a western-style democracy will ever work in a land that has for centuries been ruled by tribal warlords. The five main tribal groups will always be at each others' throats and no amount of engagement with the population by what they see as a foreign occupation will ever change that. Whether we pull out by 2015, as has been mooted, or we pull out now, the net result will be the same and the country will just descend into chaos again as soon as the we depart. Therefore, surely it is completely senseless to continue to risk the lives of our armed forces on what is a hiding to nothing.

So, one of the excuses being bandied around for the poor growth of the UK economy over the last quarter is the royal wedding in april. Kind of p155es on the bonfire of those who claimed that the extra tourism revenue it would generate justifies the continued public financial support for the royals doesn't it.

I went on one of those once in a lifetime holidays recently... Never again!

No, but you can roll it in glitter

Madness' version of It Must Be Love piddles all over Labi Siffre's original.

How about UB40's entire career?

I truly loathe this man. His right-wing views were considered too extreme even for Fox News for pity's sake - why does he still get airtime!? It seems he is almost as much of a hypocrite as Arsene Wenger as well. Just have a quick read of these two snippets from that article...

Now there's a surprise!

Although I never truly liked Ben Elton as a comedian, I must doff my cap to him for co-writing one of the funniest TV shows ever broadcast: Blackadder.