Greedyfly

I'm gonna ignore that 'parrot' comment because I haven't and this is largely a pleasant discussion. But it's one thing for RM to say it, it's a different game entirely for him to prove it and I've not seen an improvement in either area since game one, in fact I'd argue there's some regression, that's my issue. It's not like we're suddenly going to turn into world beaters within 4 games, and we were fucking shit last Wednesday and not much better against Hull. Fortunately, our form has been ok but not good enough to overhaul Ipswich and certainly not Leicester. I've not seen him address the change in tactics when we go up, I've seen/heard him be dismissive of defensive duties at the cost of possession and I personally have seen no improvement in performance which is what's making people turn against him. If your tactics don't work with your players, you're the problem. I actually liked him when he came in, he's well spoken and seems relatively pleasant. I can't say I have the same feeling today.

Fair enough. Personally, I wouldn't mind the possession so much if it wasn't so ponderous. I find it even more frustrating that when we do go 1 up, we revert back to this pass it about, for passing sake strategy which, given the ability of most of players, statistically will lead to a mistake sooner or later. And often does (see Bednarek as recently as Wednesday). I do agree with you and think that clientele has a lot to do with it and this why I cannot understand anyone who continues to champion the likes of those who've ruled over our downfall such as the likes of the CB noted above. Wanting Stephens back ASAP smacks of ingrained failure. However, I think RM is also part of the issue. His Swansea side, when on that 11 game run, actually played some nice progressive stuff. I haven't seen any of that barring a half against Leeds which is where he gets some leeway in his 'changing style' mantra that he leans on. However, I think, apart from being an upgrade on Jones, he's not the right fit either. He's stubbornly neglecting defensive duties which, had this been a prem season, would see us murdered weekly. Possession teams are also very good in defence and we clearly are not and there's been no improvement in that area. Worryingly we seem to be slipping in the attaching areas as well which would be alarming but again that's down to poor personnel - see AA and Che who are historically bang average. He's also reverting to negative tactics when going up in a game. Said this already but it's so fucking annoying. Possession football I am fine with. I actually think it's probably too early to pull the trigger on him as well, but the excuses have to stop soon and I've seen nothing that convinces me we'll go up automatically, or convincingly win a play off.

Where from? 7th in XG according to this site here which is the only one I could find updated. https://footballxg.com/xg-league-tables/ 3rd in dribbles according to whoscored and that's almost certainly down to Sulamana and KWP. It's not great if either of those are true? Appreciate it's 0106 in the morning and I should stop being a loser and go to sleep but I'm genuinely surprised anyone finds the football we're serving up entertaining.

I actually think those who think we're in the minority are the lunatics here. Like, you must be so surrounded by only Saints fans that you don't have any other friends who chat the exact same way about their own team. Wanting the best is human nature. For you, your team etc. I can understand the merits of both sides of the argument for RM and our brand of football at the moment, but anyone suggesting that we are the only team, or only one of a handful of teams, who are fickle and moan about not being the best possible versions of ourselves, are fucking mental and not worth having a discussion with straight off the bat.

Genuine question; you don't think it's down to those he's meant to be servicing? He's got 2 assists so far and is aiming at a cart horse in Che, and an-out-of-position-AA (who's also pretty meh). Or maybe it's the system that doesn't suit him? He likes to try and advance up the field, take on players, make things happen and not tap it 5 yards backwards/sideways ad nausea. I'll concede that his goal output isn't great, but he's never really been that player. Tella was more direct and I would have preferred we kept him instead/also, but we fucked him off pretty quick, annoyingly. As it happens Edozie started scoring a bit, taking players on so got hooked for 3 games. Stop that son!😂

He was just fine earlier in the season but had a stinker tonight.

This is such a weird position to take and is the same as the poster banging on about Che being the fall guy. They aren't mutually exclusive. Bazunu can be shit whilst simultaneously having shit outfield players. Ironically I think most of them would be just fine in a proper fucking system. So for me, Martin is the real issue.

Because he's fucking shit? Mara being shit doesn't exonerate Che from also being shit. Bednarek is an actual wet fanny of a defender too, and absolutely responsible for the second.

So glad I said what I said about Bree and Holgate who have now both dropped a bollock this half.

Couldn't agree more. Have been critical of him throughout but he's having a good game and he's managed to pass to team mates too. Think Holgate has been just fine too despite being utter shit in every other appearance. KWP is class though. Che useless non-existent half.

Great to get that win, nice to grind out a win too. But it's still not pretty. I will, however, take 20+ugly wins any day.

You say that as if isn't exactly the thing it will do If you think being as good as Hull is our ceiling then we're really in for mid-table obscurity. The performance from the few minutes I could stand, is the same insipid performance we've put out since maybe game 3 and one half against Leeds aside. At least until this point he could be given the benefit of the doubt. We're 12 games in and going backwards if anything. I think most of doubt has gone.

You forgot time. We need to give him/them all the time in the world, you know until it's mathematically impossible to get promotion, to iron out the kinks. And bravery And then some more time.

Alan Ball. Football has somewhat moved on from those days but it actually feels we are trying to be too clever with the limited squad we have - and an even more limited manager. Maybe if we reverted to those tactics Martin might achieve something yet. Unfortunately we don't have a Le Tiss in our ranks but I am hoping Stewart might provide some answers. big hope that though.

None taken ..I think. Nah we're having one of those respectable debates that hasn't turned to discussing university's or whatever else is going on around us. But here's the thing, the 8 on target might have been enough IF Arma starts in the position in which he excelled last week instead of shoe horning in an absolute cart horse in Che. If he starts Alcaraz who was the reason we could pass out from the back, to attack, we might convert one of the 8. If he doesn't take off Suleman, if he starts Charles etc etc etc. He's making no friends when in reality he could make life easier for himself. I mean where the fuck has Edozie gone? Scored 2, nah on the bench son. He's managed to get the Left Back team of the year player, looking like shit. Turned Smallbone, who was lauded at Sunderland, into a match stick, and bigged up one of the worst keepers I've ever seen. Yes there's players that should cop some of the blame but he's the Southampton version of Frank Lampard. Over complicating with under complicated players. Really, the stats are flattering us. 8 on target Vs Rotherham is the bare minimum.

Nope but we shouldn't have been in this position in the first place. Ponderous build up play, awful tactics, not trying to kill the game off, shit subs, shit starting line up, all of his own doing. I didn't dislike his appointment, but he's getting slower and more predictable each week and I dislike him with each game that passes. Fucking Rotherham. A competent manager has us beating them without incident

Hmm bit more punch behind them now though. It's not a 'told you so' moment as much as I'm still not convinced he's setting us up to win. Score, sit back, take off good players, concede, have no way back rinse repeat. Like I said we were great against Leeds first half but we've been anything but convincing this season against anyone. And we've played some utter shit teams as well.

How is it not?

When he's got us up with a decent squad and without the prem players that got us the first 3 wins. Appreciate however, that my words have a lot less weight now though 😂

I just don't get this line up again, but even with it we should still win. Still feels like we're winning (if we win) in spite of Martin's fucking about, not because of it. We were good first half last week but meh the second.

As glad as I am for the win, especially as an attendee, we still weren't great. Having Alcaraz in the middle gave us a better passing outlet, at least in the first half, but Smallbone, who I don't dislike, unlike many others on here, still wouldn't have been my first choice over Charles. Sulemana was a good start (weird substitute) and should have stayed on, but yeah. Good result, but an average but improved performance. Shout to Armstrong who was very proactive for his goal and good throughout (one will definitely be chalked to an own goal).

Whether I want him gone or not, I'd actually like this to see who they'd get this time out. Like they would have to actively seek out someone who's utterly useless but still qualified as a manager. It would take some doing...

Shouldn't have been given the job in the first place

A) no you wouldn't, he's a better creative force Vs Smallbone and I don't particular dislike Smallbone but you can't have nothing coming from the CM area and Charles isn't the one to get dropped B) The criticism is justified because he's an utterly atrocious goalkeeper C) Alcaraz may well have been shit this season BUT he's at least been good at various other times. Baz has yet to have a good game. At all.

A plank of wood? Wood have the same net output