Saint Charlie

That wasn't the L1 promotion season. He didn't start in either of the consecutive promotion seasons I don't think.

Bournemouth?

Alli has physical attributes JWP will never have. This is the problem with JWP. People want him to do more than he is capable of. Hence why every summer people talk of him kicking on. Next season he will probably start another 14-18 games and the cycle will repeat about him being a great prospect, is only 22 etc.

This is looking more likely. If you haven't been banished to the Glasgow Rangers forum by then of course.

I'm sure he is trying to have that season every season. But he won't have a Dele Alli esque season because he isn't as good as Dele Alli (no shame - few are) and isn't a similar player to him.

He made no league starts in either season according to the ESPN site.

As a holding player? I think he would be great there in a slower tempo league or in a team that has 70% possession every game but just don't think he does enough defensive basics to do that role in the PL.

+ Koeman showing again he is a class Manager and can work out how to turn around poor runs of form Long giving us some pace and energy up front which has given us a different dimension Return of Forster VVD showing he is as good as Alderweireld IMO Lots of home goals - Koeman' seeming reluctance to stay longer term European fiasco More than half of summer signings being disappointing Poor away performances against bottom half teams costing an outside chance of a top 4 finish

Its my opinion on JWP. I don't need to make it "more positive" if I don't believe it. I did a "nice" one for Wanyama just the other day. Nothing stopping you starting a topic by the way.

I'm sure he will find in Beckham's fourth season he was a superstar!

He looks more comfortable in the U21s because the pace is slower and its far less physical. There aren't many U21s who play in the PL, agree with that. But he has been playing at this level for four seasons now. I don't think he has improved much since say the second season where Pochettino used him out wide. Plenty of players get loads of U21 caps and then don't have overly successful careers. David Prutton is one example. Its not an indicator. The best England players usually have very few U21 caps because they largely bypass that age group.

Its a valid Saints related discussion. How you rate JWP's progression over the last 4 years and his ongoing potential? He isn't doing badly but I'm not sure some expectation of him is realistic based on his capability.

12/13 PL starts: 4 13/14 PL starts: 16 14/15 PL starts: 16 15/16 PL starts: 14 He will probably be quite frustrated at how his season has gone personally I would imagine. Two key barriers for him IMO: 1. What type of midfielder is he? He isn't a defensive player and isn't an attacking player. He is a technically good passer, but not a creative passer and doesn't have the touches Davis does to get out of tight spaces. Not a tackler, not a presence but does have good energy. Couldn't replace Wanyama, couldn't replace Davis and isn't as effective as Romeu. 2. Physical limitations are tough to overcome He isn't quick, nor strong, not naturally agressive. He never will be. He doesn't win enough duels to play deep unless its in a slow tempo passing game. He hasn't got that burst to get away from a player further up (evidenced against City when he was 1v1 with Mangala and wasn't confident to even try and beat him). Will he kick on? He is in danger of being a set play sub, used when we are behind and looking for good delivery near the end. Possibly harsh, but its hard to see him suddenly starting 20+ PL games next season unless we have big injuries. Which is fine, they aren't all going to be Bale or Shaw quality.

Was this season maybe a one off? In his other two seasons with us he had no red cards and at Celtic he had two in two seasons which is hardly a problem for a physical central midfielder. Two of his three reds for us were second yellows and the one straight red was widely acknowledged here to be harsh.

Anyone from here go?

JWP has been labelled every summer as someone that will "kick on" or have a great next season and he never has because his physical limitations hold him back.

For this weekend quite possibly, yes. Over the season, no.

With Vince set to be called up by England its hard to see anything other than relegation at this stage. Sub par batting lineup with couple of players in the top 6 really struggling and a lack of good pace options. Clearly unlucky with injuries but also didn't do enough with signings, especially with the bat.

We should win, but won't definitely win. If we draw and Liverpool win (quite possible) then the Benteke goal could have a huge impact. It was a good result, absolutely yes. But you can't say the goal makes no difference.

He has been woeful nearly all season including against us.

Can't see any comments suggesting that? It was a good result for us tonight.

Wouldn't be a terrible signing, of course not. But in the Townsend "meh" bucket for me going by the attitude and application comments of fans who have watched him every week.

He said: A loss tonight would have meant a draw against palace would have been sufficient to finish ahead of Liverpool (barring them beating WBA by three goals). That is correct. Great result tonight, absolutely. But you cannot slag someone for saying if they had a point less it would be better.

They are. But that Benteke goal still makes a difference.

His post is factually correct.