moonraker

So why didn’t your clever Brexit leaders identify that glaring fault in their dastardly plans when they propsoed it as soloution to the problem? It seems you voted for somthing you for which have absoloutly no idea of the outcome, i rest my case where brexit is concerned. You constant judgment of those who debate with you and have a different view as arrogant brings pots and black kettles to mind.

My point exactly, however it is not simple, leave voters have been espousing a range of policies that will not have come to pass when we eventually leave the EU. So my question to leave voters is, what are your red lines, because what appears to be happening is that many of the perceived benefits of Brexit and the policies to achieve them are disappearing, or at best being heavily diluted, one by one. So what exactly will we have achieved at the end of this divisive and unnecessary process?

Nigel farage angry, why Brexit means Brexit, what else it means is anyones guess, it certianly wont mean what many leave voters belived when they cast their vote.

Oh that's fine then! The man is shameless.

Agree it is a bit different, still see it as hypocritcal.

Seems nasty Nigel is showing his true colours over the pond, speaking at a US Republican rally. I thought he was against foreign nationals interfering in domestc politics. Shameless self publicist.

As Whitey says many what ifs, it may have been different without the lies from both sides, but siting the Jo Cox murder is beyond contempt. As for complaining about allowing more time to register, are you advocating denying people their democratic right? For me it is the lies and spin that calls into question the credibility of the poll. You are obviously happy to have won even when it was such a blatantly dishonest campaign. You seem to arguing that leave would have had a bigger majority if those things you mention had not occurred. If you truly believe that then another referendum should provide a ringing endorsement for Brexit not the marginal and divisive outcome we currently have, so why not have another vote, now the spin and lies has been exposed ? Comparing unemployment with a referendum result is just apples and pears.

It was marginal, about the same as one city, Birmingham, or put another way a 2% swing would change the result, that is marginal by any measure. If using 1.25 million instead of 3.8 % makes you feel good so be it. Had remain won by the same margin I of coarse would be happy, but I would also accept that a very large minority voted to leave and would not be harping on about winners and losers but discussing how best our nation moves forward and should address the genuine concerns of those who supported leave. I am afraid since the vote many Brexiters have come across as patronising gits, ironic given what was said about reaminers prior to the poll, whose most consistent trait is using repetitive childish slogans, “suck it up losers”.

Another Brexmyth, whilst true that the UK is not the worst offender in terms of non-compliance with EU law neither are we the best that the Holier than thou attitude of Brexit would have us believe. At least 4 EU countries have a better compliance record that the UK, while most others are similar on compliance. There are admittedly a handful of EU members who consistently flout the rules, and funny old thing, they have significantly more Court of Justice rulings against them than the UK, unfortunately your wont find this information in the Daily Express or Mail. By the way were not out, all that has happened is a non binding plebicite was marginally in favour of leaving the EU, Brexit does not mean Brexit yet!

No ever said change would be easy, but as I said politicians are survivors and while they may take a while to fully acknowledge the mood of their electorates then even within the EU they can act. The commission acts under the authority of the council of minsters and tehrefore it can be reformed and needs to be. I am sure I have as great a synicism and dislike of the current structure as you, I would just rather stay in and fight for what is right.

Trouble is once Lawyers are involved it is not quite so clear cut and we all end up paying one way or another.

That the EU has problems has never been in dispute, and many of us rabid remainer’s have argued that the EU is not perfect and needs reform. Politicians are survivors, and I believe they will act to ensure the EU not only survives but thrives, whilst reforming it for the better. There are already many signs that the issues raised are being taken seriously, shame we will not be in a position to benefit. Its always interesting how easy it is to have two different interpretations of the same article.

Who will decide whether some ones stupidity or perceived stupidity caused them to need assistance? Lawyers will have a field day, “where there’s a claim there’s blame”, and no one will win except them. The RNLI is a Charity, it rightly does not discriminate, it just gest on with what it was set up to do, save lives without making judgements or seeking reward. We could do with more of this attitude in a society that is becoming ever more litigious and blame seeking.

It's called sarcasm, the German car manufactures have been played by you Brexiters as our saviour, which is ironic as you supposedly want to take control. It is obvious that all that matters to you is being out of the EU and to hell with the consequences.

As the resident Brexiter in chief try addresing the issue please, how will things change for the better, trade wise? The EU will not give any concessions on freedom of movement, so what control has been taken back? If you took my reference to the Car manufacturers literally then there really is no hope for you.

Hook line and sinker, as per usual, the German car manufactures have nothing to do with it except in Brexiters fantasy land. The EU will not grant an country dispensation on freedom of movement and access to the single market. How about addressing the point that we are going to have great difficulty in realising the deal that was widely implied by the Brexit camp, access to the single market and restrictions on freedom of movement, it isn’t going to happen and Boris, DD and Liam cant do anything about it, so what will we actually end up with that will be better than we had before.

I see the Swiss referendum to Take Back ControlTM of their borders is going swimmingly! The Swiss people spoke and quick as flash nothing has happened, and nothing will, the EU has flat-out refused to enter into negotiations on this topic. It seems not even those oh so important German Car manufactures can persuade the EU to grant the Swiss what they want, and they do sell a lot of their high end models in the Alpine wonderland.

If you need proof of the EU's success just look at the Olympics medal table, 76 Gold, 81 Silver, 83 Bronze medals, 240 in Total so much for the US of A!

This, I have no idea what is going on, but the fact that a BIG club or clubs have shown an interest in Fonte should not be a surprise.

Now you have clarified that there was no economic argument for leaving the EU(apart from £350 m for the NHS), let’s take your stated reasons for leaving and see where we are: a. Immigration – no change and unlikely to change if we want to retain access to the single market – likely final outcome Brexit Failure. b. Control of our Borders - we have this we just don’t do it very well due to lack of Government funding. When linked to point a, above likely final outcome Brexit Failure. c. Regaining Sovereignty – this is a much misused and abused term, what you Brexiters seem to aspire to is Westphalian Sovereignty. Whilst leaving the EU will remove one external body from direct dominion over some aspects of UK Legislation and Regulation there are many more international bodies the membership of which has not been questioned by Brexiters and yet they have direct dominion over areas of our Legislation and Regulation – likely final outcome Brexit Failure. d. Legal System – The recent u-turn on a UK Bill of Rights has amply demonstrated that this is not easy. If we wish to remain a major economy and nation with global influence we have to accept a whole range of external jurisdictions that are completely separate to the EU - – likely final outcome Brexit Failure. So what is it that Brexit will actually achieve, apart from uncertainty, economic turmoil, distraction for getting on with the things that really matter.

Also, being pedantic, the majority did not vote for Brexit, the majority of those eligible to vote who voted did vote Brexit but this is only 38% of the electorate, so not a majority. It has reasonably been argued that those who did not vote don’t care, but this does not alter the fact that only 38% voted for change whilst 62% either did not or abstained. What I find disappointing is the low turn out amongst the young, only 35% of 18 – 25 year olds voted and there are over 3,800,000 of them and of those that did vote voted over 75% in favour of remain. It was a real failure of the remain campaign to fail in mobilising the section of he electorate that was most likely to vote for them.

Great to see the easy ride to Global trade deals is on track, oops China miffed already, looks like thats one major trade deal likley to drag out for years.

Anything less and the fans will boo them onto the pitch.

Thought this was funny on one of the fews MB's "Whilst walking away from FP on Saturday,spoke with several Carlisle fans who thought we were awesome and rightly favourites to win the league." More fuel for the delusion furnace.

As one plank to another I was not referring to the self interested politicians alliance but the ordinary British voters who have been royally conned. The promise and lies of your swivel eyed looney mates can never be realised or delivered, but hey ho you just keep on with the insults, the remain camp had one and only one promise, that we would stay in the EU, it required no unholy alliance or lies but still the politicians f**ked it up.