moonraker

So true, and when blame does start getting aportioned it is rarely the senior policy makers and bean counters who are in the firing line. We cannot change what has happened, we can do a great deal to ensure it never happens again and for that we need total transparency no cover ups.

This tragedy is the result of multiple factors including but not limited to; Current Fire Risk Assessment legislation and its application, failure to acknowledge known problems with this particular insulating material especially when used in high rise buildings, cutting local authority budgets, devolution of social housing management, maintenance and delivery to third party organisations, resulting in no direct elected representation, paying lip service to residents concerns and complaints, lack of any fire safety or fire awareness education for residents, basic building design relying on fire containment at the expense of effective escape and evacuation provision. Fire regulations have evolved over a long period, starting with the legislative response to Tooley Street fire in 1861 and has essentially been a bolting the stable door approach ever since. The fire services, fire safety specialists and fire engineers have highlighted many such issues, tragically to often they are the ones left saying we told you so.

And this takes the biscuit for Pony. You always write as if you are the ultimate authority on everything, occasionally you get something right, not your GE predictions, what was your predicted, an 80 seat majority for the nasty party. In this instance the fact that Corbyn is a leaver is correct, the rest while not actually untrue is the far from the full picture. As a hard nosed quitter you are consistent, cheery pick snippets, refuse to acknowledge any downside to quitting and dismiss others opinions as pony. For a self declared democrat you do a good impression of an autocrat.

Where do I say Corbyn has any legitimacy, therein lies the problem with our antiquated electoral system. When asked the majority of people want politicians to work together for the benefit of the country, no single party is ever likely to command a true majority and the failure of the two main parties to acknowledge this is for me wrong and undemocratic.

The electorate rejected the tories, most seats but a minority's in the house, small popular vote majority but well below 50% of the vote, all starting from a 20 point lead is a dsaster there is no way to read in any other way. The Tory arrogance personified by May and the pony spouted on here by her acolytes has been seen for what it is. I still think Corbyn is flawed and not PM material but his campaigning and appeal to the young and the disenfranchised is genuine and no amount of petty snipping and re writing of history changed or can change that. A little humble pie from the Tories would do them far more good than their current strategy of claiming a legitimacy they plainly do not have. Party first, country second, that's the Tories.

While a secound referendum is pie in the sky certainly in the short term, I think now the under 35 vote has been mobilsed remain would win easialy. On the election result May is mortally wounded, she may hang on for a few months but the Tory party dont back failures. We still have a long way to go before we will have any idea what where we are heading, one thing I predict is that Brexit does not mean Brexit.

The Tory apologists cannot admit any fault with the nasty parties policies. The financial crash was international, maybe the Blair government could have done more to mitigate the crash but to blame them for the banking crisis has been one of the biggest political cons in modern British history. What is about 95 % of people will not pay any more tax under Labours proposals is it that the blinkered don't get, if it's just simply nor believing politicians why believe the nasties there all the same, at least with Labour there is some hope for the majority.

Left, Right whatever, I am not a socialist never have been, however the Tories are for me the most unpalatable of the political parties. They criticise the Unions connections to labour all the while toadying up to big business, HNWI, and the landed gentry, none of whom would ever contemplate championing the average person in the street. They feign concern for the family, the elderly, the sick, the disadvantaged, the armed forces, the police, I could go on, yet their policies and record in office are sufficient evidence for any sane jury to find them guilty beyond any reasonable doubt of political fraud and deception. One problem is many people have the same relationship with political parties as football fans have with their clubs. Witness the bindippers defence of their corrupt club over VVD, it’s the same for the many who choose a lifetime affiliation to a political party, they can never admit that perhaps, just perhaps the party is flawed. I could use exactly the same argument for Labour, but this election is about the awful prospect of the Tories led by Mayhem gaining an unassailable majority and continuing to screw the majority of our people, all in it together, strong and stable my arse.

That would be a first.

Apologies you did not but have and my point was more about latching on to peoples colthing choice than the ban, what are your thoughts on the constant cuts to our police and armed forces in the face of the increasing terroist threats?

What do you think, oops i forgot you dont think you just react!

The proposal to Ban the Burka does pose something of a dilemma. Banning clothing that is so obviously alien in our eyes seems logical and desirable. Our society is one of openness and transparency, in human relationships that means being able to look others in the eye, to read their facial expressions and indeed recognise them, the Burka prevents all of these things. Additionally the Burka immediately identifies its wearer as an adherent of Islam, in itself not a issue except that in these sad times when the Islamic faith is being hi-jacked by evil criminal forces law abiding peaceful Muslims must take a stand. One easy very public way of doing this would be for the Muslim Leadership in the UK and indeed across Europe to impose the ban on the Burka, as an act of faith not an act of state law, it is after all not compulsory for Muslim women to wear it. it is a choice not an act of faith. My problem is that for the state to ban the Burka sets a dangerous precedent. One of our core values is freedom of expression, this is often translated into how people dress and adorn themselves. I do not believe it is the duty of the state to set dress codes. It is the duty of the state to combat terrorism and other threats to our security and safety and reducing the numbers of our police and armed forces is inconsistent with this duty.

While I am no Corbyn supporter I find it odd that he fails to answer one question as is lambasted by our resident right wing loons, May hasn't answered any questions and is lauded by the salf same loons as future great hope.

In 1964 Wilson before the election Wilson was in a similar place to Corbyn, we were building the first CASD capability and Harold would not commit, indeed opposed it. Once elected and fully briefed on why we needed it he changed and the Polaris ptogramme was delivered in quick time. Of course the electorate then was dominated by people who really understood the horrors of military jingoism and major conflict and could empathise with a politician who was willing to question the need for such a orrifically destructive capability. None of us on here have any idea what global conflict means. For the record I support CASD, but welcome continual scrutiny and reappraisal as to its relevance.

What will be interesting is how small number of strong remain constituencies vote where their sitting MP was a Tory. Here in Bath it will be very tight, long time LD MP steps down Tories get back in. Very strong remain vote, 68%, it will only take a few such constituency’s, mainly LD challenger, to oust the sitting Tory based on Hard Brexit. It is these kinds of battles that no amount of national polling can account for in FPTP system.

So at what point in history do go back to to stop Islamic Immigration. Whilst there were muslims in England before the 18th century it was the openeing of the trade routes to India on a big scale and the British Empire that precipitated the first big influx of muslims, over 250 years ago, is this your starting point.

So at what point in history do go back to to stop Islamic Immigration. Whilst there were muslims in England before the 18th century it was the openeing of the trade routes to India on a big scale and the British Empire that precipitated the first big influx of muslims, over 250 years ago, is this your starting point.

Just for the record I categorically do not agree with any of your ill conceived, ill advised, vengeful reactionary responses. You have no evidence whatsoever that any thing you have suggested has the slightest positive effect. As many have pointed out to you, it reactions like yours that feed the evil of terrorism. There are no so blind as those who choose not to see. And just to be sure I had a lovely walk around sunny Bath today, spoilt by my thoughts for those murdered by the evil of terroism.

Your solution will not stop future attacks, you might argue it could reduce the likelihood, but stop them no. As to the immigration slant, the vast majority of those involved in the recent attacks are not immigrants form Muslim countries, so what is the point of your policy, it would achieve nothing, it just comes across as knee jerk vengeance, and it is vengeance that has got us where we are.

This is evil plain and simple, it may hide behind the mask of islam, but that misses the point, evil people will do evil. By doing nothing to curb extremism, not disrupting the fundnng nor openly and actively condeming these evil c**ts they are in my mind complicit in every act. Yet still western leaders suck up to them and take their tainted dollars. There are no simle soloutions but our strongest and most powerful weapon is defiance, I will not let these acts change my way of life, I will not walk in fear.

So a damp end to a disappointing season, that is apart from Wembley and not conceding a goal in four games to Corporal Clots mercenaries. I do not know what to do with Puel, my heart says get rid my head says another season.

The problem with this is that they are all self selecting, and thsoe who self selct normally have a drum to bang. As one who supports retianing Puel and is fully aware of mediocrity of our home performances have largely stayed out of the debate. I beleive he deserves another year there have been many postives this season . I also find it hilarious that the Puel out mob cant even decide on a replacement with a largely unproven relegation manager seeming to be favourite, based on this forum + 606 + Facebook and twitter .

Fully agree, I would not trust any of the current crop of political leaders to lead a dog let alone our country. Corbyn may get all the stick in the foreign owned main stream media but May is just as frightening a prospect and Farron is just irrelevant. I won’t spoil my ballot I will vote for the party with policies nearest to beliefs. My hope is that out of the political cluster F**k of the last 18 months a new political movement can emerge lead by people of quality and conviction.

Without Mane and Coutinho Liverpool struggle to score, despite dominating possession it took a wonder goal against Watford to win. I do not expect us to win but a draw is more than likely.

Just for clarity, and pedantry, the programme is to acquire a new continuously available strategic nuclear deterrent. Trident is the weapons system, and is the pointy bit of the capability, not the totality of the capability. The capability is a continuously available strategic nuclear deterrent, we have chosen to use a submarine based capability, other brands are available, and it is this that provides Continuous at Sea Deterrent (CASD). CASD comprises: The Delivery Platform (Submarines), AWE Aldermaston, much of the Clyde Submarine Base and its associated Armaments Depot, significant elements of the Submarine Training Programme and Nuclear Propulsion Programme, BAE Systems Barrow, command, communications and intelligence components, DE&S Acquisition and Delivery Team, and myriad of specialist suppliers.