moonraker

HaHa yYou post a link to a piece by a rabid leaver, why?

Well I'm off to Gibralter in the morning and looking forward to partying with our Gibratarian citizens who got the rereferndum right.

That's not fair and far to complicated for some to understand, what Batman really wants to know is when will we stop immigration and how does the FTSE thingy stop a European army, simples!

So briefings are indicating that Gove has only thrown his hat in the ring to stop Boris. The Tory infighting and backstabbing got us into this mess and now Brexiters will be saddled with more Tory treachery and these are the people that will lead us into the unknown. As Duckhunter said, shame leave won. If WW1 was lions led by donkeys, Brexit is baboons led by snakes.

More the Royal We, I to voted remain.

He is not standing becasuse he wont get suffiecient Tory support and because he really wnats to remain and very time he opens his mouth he puts both feet in it. Another fine mess we have got ourselves in.

He is not standing becasuse he wont get suffiecient Tory support and because he really wants to remain and evry time he opens his mouth he puts both feet in it. Another fine mess we have got ourselves in.

Its rubbish, we are in our third meltdown in sucssesion, Les is clueless and we are just a stepping stone, I know this to be true because so many of our fans keep posting it.

We have not got control back, in a globalised world Brexit is the greatest series of illusions since Houdini, and Boris is his natural successor.

So the key planks of the Brexit Camping are slowly unravelling; the NHS wont get £350m extra a week, we cant get immigration down to 10,000s, free movement will remain if want access to the single market, and while the sun might still be shining the pound is being hammered, energy costs are rising, the stock market is falling (great for pensions!) our credit rating is downgraded, and our political leadership is in chaos, xenophobia appears to be on the rise, constituent parts of the United Kingdom are planning rebellions. But hey ho its all a price worth paying, we wont be in the EU.

The parliamentary Labour Party want to change the leader, if he wont go voluntarily a General Election will certainly see his demise. Conversely there may well be many who are not prepared to risk their seats for their principles. My judgement is they will go for a General Election it will also delay Article 50.

My country has lost and time will prove you wrong

Shut up you part three tw*t, you bore for England

I am very disappointed, but recognise the result and now desperately want to see some real leadership to ensure we execute our withdrawal for the EU effectively and honourably. I am a glass half full person and while this result saddens me it provides an opportunity to re-energise politics and increase engagement and participation. The hard part has just begun and delivering the benefits of Brexit will be watched closely. The euphoria of gaining independence for the United Kingdom may well presage the break up of the United Kingdom as Scotland voted unanimously to Remain and will I believe leave the Union. Cameron is rightly being challenged on his failure to deliver a remain vote and will resign, but in my view it Corbyn who should shoulder the most blame and resign. Corbyn has been an apathetic participant in the campaign, it is the Labour Heartlands that have delivered on a Right Wing policy and he should resign. Finally whilst we have had some impassioned exchanges and penned the odd insult I have enjoyed the debate on here. There have been some thought provoking and heartfelt arguments from both sides and if that can be magnified across politics in general around the country that can only be a good thing for democracy.

The real hurdle they will have to clear is that of being Right Wing. Working class voters are in the main only interested in UKIP becuase of immigration, their other policies, such as they are, will not attract suffiecient traditional left of centre voters to have any chance of electroral success in FPTP system. They are a one policy party in the eyes of much of the electorate, a policy that is unworkable, that leave has admitted is unlikely to curb immigration signifcantly.

You are right, the Governemnt are not constitutionaly bound by referedums, however if they choose to ignore the outcome we would really see the sparks flying.

A fair point, but could you answer my question.

Have you listened to it, what in his lecture is untrue, false, or in any other way deceptive? The leave line of insinuating that any one with a link to the EU, Big Business or some other Remain leaning organisation are all corrupt or at best unethical is more a reflection of the character of the leave campaign and its inability to put forward any practical arguments or plans. The fact that people might actually know what they are talking about seems to be an irrelevance in the Brexit alternative universe.

Wont change any minds I am sure but Professor Michael Dugan analyses of the EU referendum debate is very revealing, and should have been broadcast wider. https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/22/transcript-professor-michael-dougan-eu-referendum/.

Minor point you dont need a voting card to vote.

It will be close, 52 remain 48 leave

No arrrogance merely observations and interpretion based on your posts

No arrrogance merely observations and interpretion based on your posts

I am not sure why I continue to engage with your good self; however I do enjoy a debate especially when it is so easy to counter the opposite view. No politician is to be trusted; this principle was established by the Greeks at the birth of democracy. The issue of Turkeys membership has been a long standing part of the leave camps strategy. To claim it is only relevant because DC has championed it to the same level as leave has challenged it is disingenuous. The statement I am referring to is the claim by Brexit that the UK Turkish Embassy Website carries a pledge to work towards EU membership, I have been unable to find such a pledge, and I assumed as you have claimed it exists, you would know where to find it. I like optimism however in this case optimism will not help, you casually dismiss every warning form every quarter that leaving will have a detrimental impact on the UK as scaremongering and idle threats, yet lap up the lies and deceit of leave claims. Did you read the Guardian article linked above, it states the facts about trading with the EU if you are not in the EU, and it is not as straightforward as your optimism imagines. My ‘optimism’ on a future referendum is actually more than that, if this referendum has taught us anything it is that the majority of UK citizens want a reformed EU as a minimum. The easily dismissed outcome of DC’s renegotiations are another area where leavers are not being honest, your are right he did not get everything he wanted, that never happens in international negotiations, but to say he got nothing is fatuous. One final question do you actually research and personally develop any of the claims and arguments you make or are they just parroted repetitions of the swaggering right wing press and he swivel eyed loons who inhabit the world of leave.

I get the impression that our fellow message board contributor just does not quite get how these things work. He has shown a tenacious capability to continually lecture on serious matters without actually hinting at any understanding or grasp of facts. This despite apparently being of an age where at least some wisdom might have been accrued. Claiming that voting for a party is disconnected from voting for its leader is a clear indication of one who is somewhat disconnected from reality.