moonraker

Sounds like an apprenticeship, and a long one at that. This is not about apprenticeships or trainees, its about recruiting the right people who on their CV and through interviews and other selection processes an employer takes on to perform a particular task or range of tasks, if the employer has not established that they are qualified and trained to do the job then 11 months should be enough. I used to manage a small precession engineering factory, the guys I employed were operating their machines within a couple of hours of joining, if they couldn't do what they had claimed they would not have been invited back for a second day. In my current job we have apprentices and graduates they are normally gainfully employed for some of their time within a couple of weeks, we invest in them, mentor, coach and train them and they repay us with loyalty, staff turnover half the CIPD average for our industry, and high quality work. The other consideration is salary, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Whilst there are some work shy malingerers they are few most shortfalls in staff performance is due to one or more of the following: bad management, a poor working environment, a poor work place culture and low salaries note none of this is in the gift of the employee.

They really would be incompetent if they took on extra staff when direct demand for their product/service was falling, my assumed scenario was the business was growing hence demand was growing. Even in these times not all businesses are retrenching in fact in my experience small companies can often benefit in harder times as they are more agile and can react quicker to market changes than big companies. My own companies 3 biggest growth period in the last 25 years have all been at a time of a fall in overall demand in our core market, growing organically from 10 staff in 1988 to 220 today and expecting to be at 250 by the Autumn.

From my experience of working for and with small firms ( If not bering able to hire and fire at will is preventing a company expanding I suggest it may well be the owners lack of of competence or confidence as a manager and leader that is questionable and needs addressing Large companies have govenance structures, processes and staff who protect the comapny and staff so whilst a poor line manager may cause employees problems the employees have a route to redress that is not practical in small firms. The suggestion above that the Gov provide small firms with better HR and employment support would be far more positive than this Victorian approach.

Tanning Parlours

The accounts above are fairly accurate, Orpheus was the first boat fitted with the system and this was one of the earliest trials. I served in two other boats with the same systems and fortunately there were no other incidents like this.

If he is professional and focused on whats best for the business (as a CEO he should be) your SFC alleigience should not matter, if he is not you should ask whether you want to work for someone who can allow his football alleigience to influence the way he does business.

The difinitive SM movie is Das Boot, best watched in German with subtitles.

2 years greeny/fore-endy left Orpheus 77

Ships company or rider?

I was there HMS ORPHEUS not quite as you describe but close enough.

St Marys is more than where its at, its the original name of the club and reflects our nickname, and for those reasons I would want to retain St Marys in a any corporate renaming. Also it has legs whilst we are forever indebted to Markus and his family one day we will have other owners and then what, sticking with St Marys would in my opinion give the name more protection from the whims of egotistical owners who may only see the Liebherr title as relevant to the previous owners

Are silk scarves, all the rage in the 70's so very retro, acceptable? Also you make no mention of: Flat Caps Clogs Pipes Thermos Flasks (for Bovril) Duffle Bags Bicycle Clips Wooden Rattles Are these traditional football supporters garb and accoutrements now on the banned list, we must be told!

I dont know and dont care, if they enjoy it thats their call, I certainly cant explian it. I assume that the Stazi have never done anything slightly off the wall in their lives or if they have I bet they have a great reason why!

Why do people get dressed up? Because they obviously enjoy it and I assume it makes them feel good and part of something. I personally don’t get it, but in a free society I have no right to question there actions, if it makes them happy that’s all that matters. As unusual Dune and his fellow Stazi members miss the irony of their dictatorial musings, he claims to understand history and to be an English patriot, well Dune the English have been dressing up for high days and holidays since time immemorial and if a saints promotion party is not a high day then I don’t know what is.

Interesting piece on today this morning with reference to the inevitable decline in the influence importance of newspapers, the nationals are loosing significant readership year on year. Whilst we must project a positive image i do not think "keeping the press (written media) sweet" is a golden rule for achieving this, most people get the news from the TV and internet with the BBC being miles out in front as the most trusted and used news website. Cant remember Utd having any problems when Fergie refused to speak to BBC journos, i know its Utd. Its simple treat them with respect and treat them equally but do not cow tow to them or let them dictate anything.

I could not be there today, gutted, Markus thank you for saving my club and setting back on the road in tye right direction, thank for Nicolas, thank you for the JPT and two promotions.

You are not funny, well possibly in the peculiar sense.

Season tickets are not the be all and end all. Modern lifestyles mean people want flexibility there is a large constituency of Saints supporters who for whole raft of good reasons cannot or do not wish commit to a season ticket, at the Dell and at times at SM in the prem you had to plan weeks in advance, if work, family or other good reasons prevented you from doing this confidently then like me you either very rarely went (the Dell) or only targeted Bronze type games, in itself not an issue as I go to watch SFC. My point is a greater capacity will when the team is successful provide greater flexibility especially for those of us who have a life outside football. Finally even at 45k its not guaranteed that Cocky B**gger Fry would be able to turn up on the day and get a ticket for MU or a handful of other clubs come to that, another throw away statement presented as a fact!

Im hoping for fair and affordable pricing for all not just cheap pricing. Expand capcity and keep current prices no bother dont expand and signicantly hike prices wont be impressed. The table provided above is interetsing and the mid table (pricing table) prices seem very fair.

Thanks for a thoughtful and though provoking response. My reference to the phew was obviously tongue in cheek! I still don’t accept your Apple argument they control the retailing yes, as do many exclusive brands, this is not really the same as controlling the supply as I said do you know anyone who wants an Apple product but cant get one. I can’t agree with but do understand you point about exclusivity, my problem with it is the next step is elitism and there is no place for that in football supporting circles. Going by the rate at which Tesco’s and Sainsburys are building and opening local stores in here in Bath they are certainly making capital investments in infrastructure that will be there for a long time. You point juxtaposing selling as much as is possible and profitability is as I stated most often constrained by factors outside the direct control of the business or factors that usually lag the upswings in demand i.e. production and recruitment. Nowhere in my argument am I advocating increasing capacity beyond a sustainable level, where I fundamentally disagree with the don’t expand argument is I believe, initially in the short term, that in the prem we can regularly (not always) attract larger crowds than SM can accommodate and if we build on our success and become an established top half prem team able to have a crack at the top six spots then the occasions when SM will be seen to be to small will increase and we will have lost an opportunity to maximise revenue and therefore improve our chances of sustaining the club at the levle we all desire. And your final point is the key reason why I prefer expansion, if those became the standard ticket prices many long standing Saints Fans would be disenfranchised due to cost. Some would ration their attendance some would give up all together and as for taking your family and bringing on the future generations of fans this would be beyond most people. A very good point was raised earlier in the thread wrt NC doing his homework to establish whether expansion is right for the business the fact that he has mentioned more than once publicly tends to suggest the evidence is tending towards an extension. 50k plus a Wembley whilst one off it is an indicator tough and should not to be dismissed, also how many are on the database? Apologies to those who complained for continuing the economics debate, but essentially ground extension is just that a debate about the clubs economics.

As you seem to favour opening or closing your posts with an insult I thought I would mimic you, you’re an economic ignoramus, oh that makes me feel superior. Back to the debate, and a couple of points: My Example was to illustrate one extreme (you illustrated the other) of the capacity argument the one you are arguing for i.e. that you maximise revenue by controlling the supply this has some merit when market conditions lead to an increase in demand and therefore you are able within limits to set the price high until supply and demand are in equilibrium. This is fine when the supply side cannot be adjusted to meet demand due to real scarcity (diamonds, gold, good wine) I would argue that whilst there is a limit on the amount of supply in terms of football stadia we haven’t come close to reaching it with SM. Your Apple example is so completely wrong, Apples business model is not based on controlling supply, anyone who wants an apple product could go out and buy one today. The apple model is based on: exclusivity (not the same as demand), market access due to Microsoft dominance and the need to differentiate, first to market with new gizmo’s and first class customer service. It is these business model attributes that allow Apple to set premium prices not the control of demand. For a football club it would be difficult to replicate exclusivity indeed it is the antithesis of what a successful football club should pursue, MU are hardly exclusive but hey they are successful, they attempt to service demand to the maximum possible, (not comparing us to MU, just and example, just in case you do your usual thing and mis-interpret) whereas the phew have tried the exclusivity model by not extending FP and discouraging all but the bestest fans in world, and look where that got them. To counter your “Most businesses I know do not go out to sell as much of their thing as is humanly possible” conversely most well governed businesses I know (ignoring window cleaners or makers of bespoke furniture etc.) do the opposite, they are occasionally constrained by cash flow or the ability to respond to the market often due to production or resource limitations. I certainly don’t see Tescos or Sainsburys letting there shelves run empty or Fiord or Nissan reigning in car production, unless demand dries up, but they maintain the infrastructure to respond to the upswing in demand For capital expenditure read capital investment, now let me see, invest for the future, how many times have the majority of Saints fans pointed out that failing to do this is what got the phew to where they are now, the riskiest “investments” in footballers are transfer fees and wages not infrastructure. It wasn’t the SM mortgage that got us into trouble it was relegation and a misguided attempt to buy our way out of the Championship. Hope that helps I may not be right but I do actually think about what I am saying, since when has the crisp supply been controlled, production is geared to meet demand.

You very conveniently ignore the fact that we more than doubled our capacity when we moved from the Dell, if your logic had been applied we would have built a smaller stadium than we did.Ccontrolling supply when demand is high is a high risk strategy and not very common, why not have a 10k stadium (a lot less overhead) and charge £200 a seat? a bit far fetched i Know but it illustrates my point. I want to give the maximum number of fans the chance to watch the saints at affordable prices.

There is little doubt that NC is ambitious, Staplewood attests to this. There have been many posts on here about catchment area and potential, expansion has little to do with us current fans it is all about new fans and armchair fans. Whilst the ubber fans will moan and criticise it is this constituency that must be cattered for and attracted to the SM and the only way is to provide more opportunity to get tickets. The Reading plans are of real significance to us, our catchment areas overlap and non committed fans who want to watch premiership football will watch the club that provides easiest access and the best facilities. When we moved from the Dell few thought we would average over 30k (in the prem) at SM, they got that wrong, the only way we will find out what level of support we can sustain is to expand and expand as soon as possible.

Went to the Gambia in the late 80's lovely people, great to see the video thanks.

I forgot to put Ted Bates in my list, never saw him play but he is without the rreatest of all Saints legends.