Chewy

It wasn’t - it’s all a conspiracy. 😉

I noticed that quote too. Despite his bravado in earlier interviews about sticking to the process and being brave he has changed things and been more pragmatic, especially with the full backs. Wonder if Wilcox had a word, if he and the coaches decided it for themselves or even if it was the players. Whatever the case it was needed. And to be fair it’s what most of us were clamouring for on this thread. Maybe some of us were right after all? He does speak well, seems to have decent values, is proactive with his subs, likes to play good football and seems popular with the players. There’s a lot to like and why I think most fans want him to work out. But he was taking us down a kamikaze path. If he’s back-tracked and gone down a more pragmatic version of that route, I’m all for it. Maybe the fans are to blame for this? Who knows? Maybe we need a poll?? 😉

An ugly win. Can’t remember the last one. A clean sheet - nope, can’t remember that either. Wouldn’t want to watch that every week but exactly the sort of result and performance we’ll need at times in this league, and not something we looked capable of a couple of weeks ago. Well done and keep it up!

An ugly win. Can’t remember the last one. A clean sheet - nope, can’t remember that either. Wouldn’t want to watch that every week but exactly the sort of result and performance we’ll need at times in this league, and not something we looked capable of a couple of weeks ago. Well done and keep it up!

Alright me duck. Or alright duck. Every person you ever meet up there is a duck. Get on a bus to Hanley and you’ll be asked “going Hanley, duck?” Strange people, but mostly good, down to earth and friendly.

?? Potters don’t say “Ay up”. Alright me duck, possibly with an oatcake on the side. Never ay up

Love the “can’t just be outcome based” bit. Maybe not entirely, but it kind of is the f*cking point when all said and done. At least appearing vaguely concerned about the outcome would help. In the context of the other comments, safe to say we’ll be aiming for high possession stats again tomorrow. Genuinely considering watching the golf rather than attending - have a bad feeling about how bad tomorrow might be at St Mary’s

And now his old assistant has been let go by Chelsea as well (Bruno Salter). Who speaks Spanish (I presume as he is Spanish). Maybe the stars are aligning? Or maybe we’ll just plough on down this fruitless furrow for another 4 months.

Marcelo Gallardo. Exciting coach; give Charlie someone to talk to. 2 birds, 1 massively unrealistic stone 😉

Actually … do you think anyone has thought to feng shui the sh1t out of Marchwood and St Mary’s?

My opinion fwiw. From a tactical perspective we’re too far apart from front to back. We need to squeeze further forward so we start passing it around 10-15 years further up than we currently are. The biggest difference between the Sheff Wed performance and recent games is this. Obviously Sheff Wed helped us by playing deep, plus a high line is dangerous without pace at the back, but if we keep playing where we are in front of our own box we a) invite an immediate goal opportunity against when we lose it and b) don’t have our two more offensive midfielders near enough to the ball. And if they drop deep they’re too far from the forwards to create anything meaningful. Secondly we’re not using width properly. (and again were so much better first game with especially Tella and KWP). Because we’re too stretched we’re slow to support the wingers. Their only option is to go backwards or beat a man and cross; but we only have one striker, who’s not very tall, so it’s a waste. I’d like our wide men narrower to create more of a front three, only have one AM so they don’t get in each others way, have two sitting to allow our full backs to be wider and more supportive of attacks and to also allow us to dominate the middle. It should also make us harder to play through. Seeing as our weakness will be scoring goals (because we FAIL EVERY SINGLE F***ING TRANSFER WINDOW TO SIGN A STRIKER) we need to work on being harder to beat. We won’t create much through crosses but by clever play in the channels so I’d like a bit of guile and pace here (I.e. not ArmA), full backs able to join in without leaving us overly exposed, and some strength in midfield. Unfortunately I don’t know who could partner Shea in midfield to play a deeper role - didn’t watch today but gather Downes was poor. I’d be concerned about being exposed to pace at the back with a high line as well, but every system has its downsides and at least it gets the ball further away which helps defensively and offensively. My ideal team (form and fitness permitting) would be Baz KWP Jack (THB) Jan Manning Shea Downes/Smallbone 3 from Edozie Stu Charlie Kamaldeen Ross (Adams) But there are still glaring concerns which are cb pace, left back, second midfielder and the striker if Ross isn’t as good as Aguero. Plus most concerningly, leadership and character. It’s not going to be easy for anyone, but I’d expect the above to offer a better showing than Martin’s lot managed against Leicester, Sunderland, Ipswich, Boro and in fact QPR (who were unlucky to lose on chances and was where this all started to unravel). We were actually pretty close to being in the right shape v Sheff Wed but seem to be going backwards every new game. I know Wednesday were poor and we had a couple of players who’ve now left but we’ve fallen so far from that performance level I’m seriously concerned. The last thing we need is more upheaval but from my perspective it’s pretty obvious we’re now on entirely the wrong track and the sooner we make a u- turn, the better.

Decent press conference imho. Hardly expect him to come out and say we’re sh1t and all is lost. Obviously put a more positive spin on things than we observers and fans might but given that he’s working there every day it’s not unexpected. Interesting snippets for me were that he basically admitted that apart from Jack there isn’t a leader in the squad. Nothing we didn’t know but encouraging that the club recognise this (I.e. they might try and address it). He said he’s been speaking at length recently with Jason. No idea what’s been said but maybe the slightly less cavalier approach v Ipswich was a hint? Of course, we just need Jasons next conversation to strongly suggest never playing Aribo and playing Shea in midfield… Interesting also that he specifically named Meghoma, SAA, Doyle and Dibling as the four youth players working extensively with the first team. And that Jason desperately wants a youth pipeline, something encouraging on the long-term front. All in all, nothing in that to get your knickers in a twist about. All that said, press conferences are irrelevant to the only thing that matters which is winning football matches. From what was said it looks like Jan and Downes are available and will hopefully return. That should hopefully mean Jan and THB in defence and please god Shea and Downes in midfield. If that happens I’m happy. That leaves 3 spaces to be filled by a combination of Kamaldeen, Fraser, ArmA, Edozie, Stu and Charlie (plus Che up front). We’ll all have different opinions about the best combination, but I suspect most of us will be happy enough. My worry is that he’ll play ArmA as the 10, or even worse Aribo or Smallbone. Or Mara out wide again! So long as he doesn’t do that, we should be good enough for a positive result. I think come 2 o’clock we’ll have a good idea how this afternoon will go.

He was awful. He barely moved. He managed to be simultaneously the last man to join in attacks and with defence. He hid from his centre backs not wanting the ball, and when he did get it he gave it away and they nearly scored. Occasionally when he happened to be doing his statue impression in the right area, the ball came to him; he does indeed have a quality left foot so was able to control and pass it nicely. But “drive forward “??? Nope, “drive” isn’t the word I’d use. Minimal effort, zero pace, no game awareness, no leadership, not offering for his team mates. Utterly dreadful. The most surprising moment pre game was seeing his name on the team sheet. The most surprising thing in the game was seeing him emerge again for the second half. How anyone could think he’d off your midfield more than Stu or Charlie is beyond me.

I’m largely with you in this assessment. There were (imho) 4 key reasons for our relegation last season, three of which were (you can debate which was most critical): lack of a goal scorer lack of leadership Inexperienced (some would say incapable) gk We might have improved the goal scorer but have no idea yet; we’ve potentially gone backwards in terms of leadership, and have the same gk (decent last couple of games tbf) In other words we’ve spectacularly failed to address the core deficiencies in the squad. Again. This part is not on Russell Martin. Where I do differ, however, is that I also cite the respective managers and their tactics as the 4th reason for last years shit show, and what we’re being served up now. If you lack leaders, at least pick those you have (Jan), rather than rely on kids. If you have a fragile mentality don’t play high risk football. If you can’t score goals, make us hard to beat so we don’t need to score 5 to have a chance of winning a game. The mentality will come only from improved results, which won’t happen if we set up to play kamikaze football from the back. We don’t have the quality, experience, temperament, character or ability to do it and are damaging ourselves whilst making life easy for our opponents. They don’t even have to try. Russells got a tough gig in some respects, especially regarding the lack goals and leaders. But he’s not cutting his cloth to suit the situation on either count and is making things worse. I feel for him to an extent - changing a 6 year losing mindset isn’t easy. But fundamentally his job is to try and win football matches and in very simple terms what he’s currently trying to do tactically is not going to win us football matches. A midfield 3 like last night will not win you a game in this league. A cb, cb, dm gk set with an average age of (I guess 20?) won’t win you a game in this league. Playing all your football in tight spaces 5 yards from your own goal won’t win you football matches in this league Relying on ArmA and Aribo for creativity won’t win you football matches in this league. Irrespective of the leadership and goal scorer issues, all of the above are decisions Russell and his coaches are making. Not the players, not the board, not the inept recruitment team and certainly not the fans (I didn’t boo last night, never will, but understand why some are frustrated enough to). The players available is now a fixed set (injuries etc aside) until January so the only variable available is what Russell and team do from here. It’s on them and I have vain hope but zero confidence that he’s going to get it right from here. He strikes me as far too arrogant - a trait the club reeks of from Ankerson down.

Slept on it again before posting and it’s still too depressing. Im going to try and balance the rest with some positives - the performance generally was better; first half until the goal we controlled and that was despite playing with ten men (I refer to Aribo). Second half after we moved Charles into midfield was an improvement in intensity and intent. Bazunu played well again. KWP played better when playing as an attacking full back. Shea played well in midfield. I think that’s it. Negatives? Leadership - like last season we have none. After Sheas mistake the only person offering him a supporting pat was THB - a kid. Where was KWP, Aribo, Fraser, Adams, Manning or captain ArmA? We have so few leaders and characters which is mostly on the recruiting but we do have Jack (injured) and Jan (not selected) Why wasn’t he playing? That is on Martin. Character - as above, mentally weak, allowing a goal to knock us so heavily. We’d controlled until then and then went to pieces and we’re lucky not to concede more. “Bravery” part 1. The defensive spine of gk, cbs and dm have an average age of 12. You, Russell, are not being brave by hanging kids out to dry - you are damaging them. Your tactics and demands on how they play are placing them under enormous (and unnecessary) pressure and they’re visibly wilting. See how much better THB was alongside some experience? How much better Shea was with the added freedom in midfield? Bravery part 2 - Our football isn’t brave - we play all our football in front of our own goal, miles from theirs. If it works it’s too far away to penetrate, if it doesn’t the opposition are straight on top of our goal. We controlled most of that game and a fair score line on chances would have been 3-0 to them. It’s not brave football, it’s f4cking thick. Part of football is making life difficult for the opposition- we are completely the opposite. Turn up to St Mary’s and be vaguely organised and just wait to be gifted your handful of chances. Fans are weak, opponents are weak, you’ll barely break a sweat. Best Players - play them, and play them in their best positions. KWP - best attacking right back in the league. Sh1t midfielder. 4 exciting wingers in the squad. We don’t send it wide and ask them to attack their man. Defenders who want to defend (see Jan enjoying it v Charles hating it). Midfielders who want to dominate (see Charles loving it, especially that massive tackle v Aribo being a statue and last man to arrive both in defence and attack- some feat!). At one point in the first half Charles and Smallbone had to swap for 10 seconds but Shea made it last another 30 seconds as he was just itching to get involved properly. Stu, Charlie or Aribo? We all knew when the team sheet was announced - no one would pick Aribo with that choice. Literally no one. God knows what Stu and Charlie were thinking sat watching the statue for 45 minutes. And he’s wasn’t even removed at half time??? So apart from the wrong tactics, playing our football on the wrong part of the pitch, playing either the wrong players or the right players in the wrong positions, having no character, no leadership, no plan to play to our squad strength (wingers) and putting all the pressure of your “brave” tactics on a bunch of kids while letting the adults amble about up top … apart from that it was a good showing. And the fans should be more supportive. Hmm We’ve had enough upheaval for me to call for more, but someone needs to take responsibility for telling Martin a few home truths pretty quickly. The squad has enough about it to be pushing for at least play-offs. Yes it lacks a goal scorer (as I’ve been vocal about for 2.5 years) but that’s probably even more reason to not play a system that gifts the opposition goals. Currently we are miles off play offs and with our fragile mentality it could get even worse!

Captain of vice? How do you get a gig like that?!?

The most concerning bit for me about that press conference was how he referenced Swansea and MK as examples of where, after a painful period, it suddenly started working and everything was great. Didn’t they finish bottom half each time? Im not suggesting it didn’t get better, or that those results at those clubs with those budgets were bad, but it’s hardly referencing a comparable experience. We should be challenging for the title from day 1. We shouldn’t - with the players we have - need to go through a learning experience of shipping 3 goals at Gillingham, 4 goals at home twice, and 5 goals at Sunderland. We were in the premier league last season, conceding less than that against far superior teams despite being utter sh1te. We shouldn’t be doing it now, new process or not. We shouldn’t need half a season of being cr4p and then be grateful for salvaging a top half finish next April. The other weird bit was when he said how all the goals conceded were different so it was hard to learn from. They’re not different - they come from a) leaving a 60 yard unmanned gap behind us (mostly at corners) or b) giving the ball away two inches from our own goal. If he GENUINELY believes there’s no common issue behind most of the goals we’ve shipped, then he’s bat sh1t mental and we’re screwed. It was a press conference so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I’m even more worried after watching that than I was at full time on Friday.

Still want 5 forwards, then? That’ll stem the flood of goals …

That team still has basically 5 forwards in it so will repeat the mistakes and performance. If we’re playing a midfield three it needs: Shea (the only player in our squad who can tackle) either Downes or Smallbone alongside Shea (and not as an inside forward) One of Stu, Charlie or ArmA I’d personally go Shea, Smallbone (assume Downes will be injured) and Charlie. I’d probably start ArmA out wide if Kamaldeen is suspended We need to stop playing with two AMs.

Very best wishes to you and your family.

Slept on it. Still angry and quite frankly gob-smacked at how bad that was. You see the team sheets and see they are playing a front 3 with wide forwards as they know about our insane concept of full backs so you hope we set up correctly. We don’t. I understand the decision of Shea in defence after Holgates debut, so assume it’s Smallbone and Downes and a front 4. To start with it isn’t, it’s the same 235. I’m not a professional coach but can see the issue of 2 centre backs v 3 forwards. Especially when 2 are wide. And the midfield balance is still wrong with only one holding. Turns out our coaches quickly spot it too (not quick enough - I saw it on their team sheet an hour before kick off) and decide we need to have cover out wide. But rather than revert to a back 4 and balance the midfield by dropping Smallbone back we come up with some insane tactic of 325 leaving one centre back against Vardy (a kid v one of the best for the last 10 years), and spend the rest of the half changing between having Shea and KWP at right back/ midfield. We actually increased the bodies in midfield by taking out a centre back, not dropping back one of our 5 forwards. Ok then. And by doing so we went man for man on 3 defenders. Of course, our midfield don’t track runners so our wide defenders are caught between marking the wingers and tracking Leicesters midfield runners which leaves them exposed, confused, and with huge gaping holes either side our one centre back who is a kid making his debut. Trying to look after Vardy. Tough gig. Martin has said how at times our attacking play was good. With 5 forwards I suppose we should have some moments. Of course, when you do occasionally lose the ball you have no cover and are immediately at risk. Might explain why Leicester didn’t even have to break sweat and got 8 or 9 glorious opportunities to annihilate us. Martin reckons Leicester were more clinical. They weren’t. Their finishing was poor and Gavin played very well. That’s right, our keeper had a good game keeping it down to 4. This isn’t clever or brave football, it’s mental, suicidal, arrogant, childish and inept. Ever heard of game management? Goals within seconds of kicking off (second game running) Goals a minute from half-time when it’s 2-1 and we’re somehow still in a game we’ve been awful in. Goals from our own corner because our deepest player is on the edge of their penalty area and isn’t quick enough to cover the 80 yard gap behind him (second game running). I like possession football, I like being brave and I like getting youngsters to be positive. But this is real man’s football in a very tough league. There are times when you just do the pragmatic thing (first few mins, after you score, closing out a half). And you always set up to have a man spare to cover for a mistake. Yes it’s a miss-placed pass that shouldn’t ideally happen but it always has and always will happen in a game. It shouldn’t always lead to a f*cking goal. 8 conceded in one and a half games!!!! Most concerning of course is the manager’s reaction which indicates to me that he’s not going to grasp this at all. As well as breaking all sorts of records for goals conceded he also needs to realise that he’s got a squad full of kids and his kamikaze tactics could ruin a few careers before they’ve started. Shea, Gavin, THB, Downes, Edozie … none of them will develop and improve on the back of experiences like last night. He speaks well and seems nice - I want him and this style of football to succeed and I desperately want saints to succeed. But at the moment it’s like watching someone trying to father a child by getting all the sex toys out. If that’s your idea of fun, Russell, that’s up to you - but conception just needs the shag so can you just get on with it. He needs to learn pretty quick. Yes he might have needed Shea in defence but can we please make sure we have a 6th defensive body v Ipswich and just four forwards, as virtually all other teams do, allowing us solidity in midfield and sufficient cover at the back. With the quality we have in wide areas and with Stu and Charlie we don’t actually need a 5th body up there, we have enough. Continue as we are, however, conceding a goal scoring opportunity every time we lose the ball, then he will need to be shot of pretty quickly. His tactics are suicidal for this division and if they stay, should be suicidal for his saints career.

I have to say I find the singling out of Smallbone unfair. He was clearly playing - as asked by his manager- as an inside right and one of our five forwards. He wasn’t meant to be protecting the defence, he was meant to be attacking. The issue here is the absolute insanity of having five forwards with no defensive responsibilities leaving gaping f*cking holes everywhere, not the individuals. May as well blame ArmA or Adams for the lack of a midfield if you’re blaming Smallbone. Nothing last night was on the players IMHO, all was on the manager. To be fair to Smallbone, we actually looked better when he replaced the injured Downes in the deeper role. Put him in the right spot on the pitch and he might do ok. Of course, that’s with the caveat of having others around him. Ask him to defend a 1 v 4 break and he might f it up.

Sunderland was concerning. Seeing that live tonight- seeing that we clearly hadn’t learned a thing - was really concerning. Reading his opinion on the game is just next level. If that is genuinely how he feels and not a public comment hiding his private feelings, we are f*cked. 30000 people in Southampton and god knows how many on tv could all see an utter shambles, suicidal tactics and a very average team gifted 8 or 9 glorious chances by our utter sh1tness. If he’s the only person who saw that any differently, and he’s in charge, we’re screwed.

This is brilliant

Can’t add a great deal to what’s been said. I won’t write a player off totally in 60 minutes, but as bad a debut as I can remember. Jan was poor Manning was poor. KWP was motm (maybe 6.5 out of 10?) Charles did well when coming on, really like the look of him Smallbone and Downes are too similar, got in each others way and were far too easily by-passed. I’ve been impressed by both so far this season - they were woeful today Stu was anonymous Edozie was quiet going forward and is a liability going back. It’s forgivable when you’re being productive as he has been lately, but he wasn’t today. So just a liability, then. Same could be said for Mara, except he’s never been productive going forward. Might be capable of doing a job up front, but a total waste of space out wide. He shouldn’t have started the first half, got booked and so absolutely definitely shouldn’t have started the second. The fact he did concerns me. ArmA can’t be a lone striker. Still. Bazunu. Um … yeah, not great. The 3rd was mostly his fault and the 5th was somewhat. It didn’t cost us the game, but it certainly didn’t help. Subs confused me today, but the game was over by half time anyway. Tactically I think the issues are very similar to last week. Need a proper number 9, not ArmA. Can understand that Che wasn’t mentally right but if you’re dumb enough to play Mara, at least do it up top. We’re easy to attack because our full backs have huge holes behind them and no protection from the wingers who can’t/won’t track back. That element is identical to last week and needs addressing. If I can see it I’m damn sure every analyst at every other championship side can see it. And the midfield balance is wrong. It was actually different today with two passing 6s and only one 8/10. Smallbone was meant to be inside right as an 8 but didn’t do this properly so we ended up with two identical players doing the same job. Neither are great at tackling so we were so easy to play through. It also meant we lost creativity going forward so we had three midfielders creating little, protecting little, but retaining possession. Great. I’m certainly not going to knock possession football but we have to a) move it quicker, b) protect ourselves from losing the ball with some cover and c) offer a cutting edge. Personally I think Charles needs to start as the base to add protection and then work from there. And if you partner him with a passing 6 and only have one 8/10, please make sure your wingers can pose a threat and beat a man, rather than vaguely move around like Mara. Overall then I’m obviously bitterly disappointed. It’s very early days, and we only found out our squad for the season late last night so I don’t expect us to be anywhere near the finished article. But there are some obvious tactical issues plus some obvious weak spots that need addressing quickly. I also think we’re a little arrogant thinking our possession makes us somehow better. Losing 5-0 suggests it doesn’t. To that end, having our ego dented (manager included) might do us some good. We now have a good two weeks to get to work which is great news for all concerned, and the next couple of games will be a better point to start assessing and judging things.