Gordon Mockles

I think the land by the Cruise Terminals probably belongs to ABP. Can anyone else confirm this?! However, the adjacent industrial estate land is not ABP (& used for Boat Show) so this could be made to doubly good use. I don't work for Kiers. We worked alongside them, being a sub contractor myself, for the duration it took to complete the initial design. We completed our work and I moved on. However, it looks an ok job and nice to be involved with local work that I'll see for years to come. Small site and very restricted and potential problems with the infrequent flood waters but, overall, it should serve the Police well. Not meaning to sound rude but comparing the vacuous town of Colchester with Southampton is a bit of a no brainer and an extreme example. All I can think of in Colchester is a military prison and awful roads to gain access into the town. I really can't understand how you can defend the local authorities and Council. How long have they had (and how much money coming in from selling off land during the boom period of the property market) to make Ocean Village and the Waterfront a spectacle to put Southampton on the map? As Smirking Saint so rightly states (and there are so many examples), just look at the Cruise terminals. People coming in from cruises and faced with old, derelict dock buildings and dilapidated warehouses. Being fair, this is probably ABP land and their responsibility but it is typical of many of the city's sights. Mayflower Park has plans - the Spitfire memorial- and MDL marinas have proposals so it will be interesting to see how well thought out the plans actually are. MDL marinas are now responsible for the Ocean Village territory so not all hope is lost. I don't think it's harsh to criticise the council and planners for holding Southampton back. As Duncan sensibly suggested, the Politicians don't escape the spotlight either. When you consider some of the key assets from which Southampton can benefit (as I have mentioned), it's scandalous how we've wasted such potential (not over-charging the residents for city centre parking for which they've now made a complete U-turn by slashing prices!) The council seem to have a fire fighting philosophy - implement an initial plan, realise it's stupid and doesn't work, then drill the press officer to make some inane newspaper headlines and implement plan b (as though plan b was the intention all along). Need an example of this: A few spring to mind. 1.) The parking debacle - up parking prices and extend chargeable hours, then realise motorist numbers visiting the city centre have dropped and parking costs may have contributed to the fall, blame it on the recession, implement parking price cuts and make out the Council have their finger on the pulse. 2.) Southampton need something to rival the Spinnaker Tower - Ridiculous plans to fire lasers across the city from the Civic Centre Clock. Widespread condemnation across the local press and public outcry. Plans shelved. New suggestions to create a Spitfire Memorial (much better idea imho.) 3.) Traffic congestion - Renown city for having congested roads and way too many traffic lights, bunging up the traffic flow (despite Romanse assistance from which should benefit). We must be bad or stupid motorists as we now need traffic lights on roundabouts which imho undoes the need for roundabouts in the first place. Gavin **** on the radio talking about easing congestion and removing traffic lights were necessary due to terrible congestion, even at quieter times, due to the lack of fluid road systems. (Foot note: Don't see much of this improvement but I have seen new traffic lights installed on Millbrook Roundabout which has made queues longer) Overall, I realise it's arrogant to imagine there's an easy answer to resolve any city centre's problems. However, I do think it's pertinent to highlight the sheer lack of foresight and initiative in both planning departments and council and authorities working with developers in many zones across the city. Actions speak louder than words. I won't argue a case. It's easier to give examples. As already stated - compare the more recent success (it pains me to admit) of Gunwharf Quay and compare it to Ocean Village or Town Quay. Only recently have plans been kicked into action to redevelop parts of Ocean Village and I can't help but think (maybe my cynical side) that's reactive to the egg on the face comparisons with Gunwharf and the distinct void (there's little to do!) in Southampton around the Cruise Liner terminals, Mayflower Park, Town Quay and Ocean Village (i.e. The Waterfront). You mention about me "claiming" to be involved to a certain degree with the developments - I merely work in the industry and I am aware of certain projects close to home and those on which I have worked. I'm not on an ego trip, trying to sound important if that's what you were intimating. I'm merely venting my frustration and giving my (all be it) strong opinions on matters locally. Nothing more, nothing less. I just feel passionate about it. The comment I made about Saints fans parking around Ocean Village was a bit pointless but I was trying to bring back some relevance to the football fans and the club as I'm sure many won't care about the local infrastructure. They just want to read about football. However, they can easily skip the thread. Whilst I had heard about the rent issues, I wasn't aware of the severe financial penalties for shops being closed in business hours. This certainly brings up some valid questions - was extortionate rent appropriated to facilitate removing businesses with a longer term view to selling off their land to the highest bidder? It would be foolish to not consider that. It begs similar questions to Ikea and how that got planning permission. However, this is purely theoretical and I digress. Overall, we have a great football club and exciting times ahead. I just really wish we had a bit more to do around the city and we really improved the city's appearance/facilities so our future generations enjoy the city to it's full potential! After all, we have massive potential as a city and it only takes a persuasive councillor or politician to make a difference with some foresight and logic (not some Post Grad with a brain wave for firing a light from a town clock!!). If some Swiss guys can arrive and make such a difference to our club's fortunes, imagine the feel good factor across town if we had people of a similar ilk making key decisions to Southampton's future prosperity!

Yes, it's up to the purchaser/developer to buy the land/real estate but any design or proposals need approval via the planning dept. Developers don't often buy blindly, then take a wild punt at scraping it through planning. For instance, the town planners decide if Oxford St remains a drinking/eating zone. Obviously, there needs to be a market for restaurants & bars and licencing is also controlled by the council (& influenced by the Police). The same goes for Ocean Village - The apartments built by Wilson Bowden. The council could have pre-determined that only a percentage of the land was apartments & stipulate a requirement for stores, bars or whatever they deemed appropriate (likea coffee shop or chandlers for the yachties). The developers may have pulled out but don't make out the council are powerless. They hold all the cards! They rejected the initial proposals for the Millenium hotel & quayside development surrounding the quay infront of Harbour Lights. Furhermore, it will be interesting to see where Saints fans park if these plans do get the green light. The Wilson Bowden undeveloped site beside Banana Wharf now looks like it's being developed by Barratts *cough* but I am hopeful they do a better job than Oceana Boulevard. I believe some bars & hopefully shops (or something of some intrinsic leisure/entertainment value to the area) are planned but I won't hold my breath. As I previously commented in the positive praise, I noted my gratitude for the stadium (as well as other elements). The council aren't stupid. This brings large amounts of money to the area, as well as extra commerce. Regarding your comments on the development stage, you are wrong. I have every right to comment. I live here. I have also had to work with planning constraints & amend designs to get through planning. That it why some of the hypocrisy astounds me & hence why I don't mince my words. I look at the view from John Lewis restaurant - staring at the huge blue & yellow blot on the landscape & scratch my head, remembering a neighbour removing an entire roof & soffit because it was a couple of millimetres out! :confused:

Errrrr, house is my thing, having been part of the local DJ scene for a number of years. However, the scene isn't strong other than a select under-current who should be commended for their efforts. Yes, we have the Hightide boat parties (but that is not just a local crowd) and Junk (cr*p venue, poor crowd but playing the right music imho). Release @ The Rhino used to be one of the few successful (longest running) nights and that went t*ts up and gave way to cheese. We have produced some good talent - James Zabiela to name but one. Then we have bands like Delays, as well as Artful Dodger, Craig David, etc. Pete Devereux DJs locally and Orange and Mono get in some good DJs but the Southampton crowd are just not a house music crowd and I have seen some well intentioned ethusiasts trying to push a more regular event and it's fallen flat on it's a*se! It's easy to fill up a bar like Orange Rooms with a big name like Plump DJs or James Zabiela (the best names in the most popular bar in the city) but consistent crowds to a similar genre are the problem if wishing to replicate that success in other venues across the city. When you look at successful nights and crowds frequenting the Brighton or Manchester club scene, you'll see my point. Hats off to certain elements of the city for trying. I happen to know many of them and many have tried, some with relative success, but many giving up due to lack of interest (and we're talking some big names and great underground talent). The independent, decent promotions put on some good nights with great talent and make a LOT of effort yet cheesy, main stream music theme bars/clubs that promote the binge drinking/18-30,student crowd seem to achieve more success (90 Degrees, Flares, Reflex, Oceana, etc.) Sad but true. Sorry to drift off topic, yet again but threads lead a wobbly path.

In case my previous post gave the wrong impression, I'm born & bred in Soton (the 16 years was my main/prolific drinking duration up until now, not time in residence). I don't hate the city (I certainly love our football club). I have been loyal, patient & actually been part of the local music scene (as well as the building industry) & spent my entire youth (& a huge amount of energy & money) trying to make a difference. Sadly, I have given up & become disillusioned, despite some successes & a lot of fun & some great memories. Not angry, frustrated. Not just for the nightlife & tendency of the masses to favour cheesey theme bars & binge drinking chain pubs (& I love a drink) over quality venues hosting quality underground music talent, but for the sheer stupidity & ridiculous decisions made over a long period by the local council which has completely & utterly held our city back & the town planning dept. have so much to answer for (deliberately avoiding topics of traffic lights on round abouts & parking costs). They have largely ruined our city. I love Saints & I am grateful for our stadium, the location, the redevelopment of some of the inner city areas, the parks, the below bar market, Oxford St & the repaving & improvement of London Road area. However, I am not happy about much else. Too much to list but it starts with the art gallery curator, it ends with the marina, parking costs, cruise liners & infrastructure & complete imbalance of flats barricading the potential link from town centre shopping to maritime sites & waterfront (with the large void of local amenities serving said apartment zones). [Getting back in track]: It makes me think, if shrewd & intelligent people like Cortese & Liebherr can help implement the glaringly obvious & swiftly improve our fortunes as a football club with good results, happy fans & subsequent soaring attendances following a previous walking timebomb of a chairman & management team in such a short time period, imagine how amazing our little city could be with some wisely spent money - key sporting/leisure venues, some key entertainment venues, additional hotels (millenium hotel anyone?), fluid traffic calming, strong emphasis on redeveloping the cruise liner belt & cashing in on that gold mine, sorting out Ocean Village & some foresight & intelligent town planning! Rant over.

It is in respect of nightlife!

Good luck & well done. Good to see a local lad earning a big step up!

Cracking attendances. Been saying all season, phenomenal support. Will now begin with my 'moved on' attitude & avoid the glaring opportunity to have another dig at the past chairman every other post! Oops!

Sorry for helping drift off topic. Back to the Preston link, I think it's a shame their attendance are dropping. Especially being 1 of the founder members of the football league! They're friendly up North. Wish people were as open & approachable down "saffff"

I used to love Orange Rooms & The Lizard Lounge (Revs) & have met many friends there but that doesn't change the fact that a certain clique of chin stroking clientele frequent those venues?! (as well as over indulging footballers under past managers). Tongue in cheek mind. Trends are trends. Well founded generalisations. I'd like to think they're accurate in this case although I was never inferring the entire town. Just an element. Don't fret about it!

Thank you! The closing of the Top Rank ice rink (I don't like ice skating but thousands did!) had been chastised for decades. The popular and slightly cosmopolitan vibe Ocean Village used to have thanks to Los Marinos (and the bar maids), Deep Water Quay, JFKs and the like was totally eradicated and replaced by....flats (ker, ching! council tax!). Furthermore, the removal of the OV arcade, Amusement arcade, Laser Quest, Oceans bar, shops and other amenities around Ocean Village . Working in engineering, I have seen some mighty f*ck ups as well as roaring successes, to the damned right questionably planned infrastructure like Liverpool (Paradise Street - pushing out locals to bring in the money via new developments) and Gateshead (where Waterside development bulldozes out the working classes who helped build the cities). However, I haven't in all my time seen a city with so much potential (maritime & medieval history, cruise ships, football fan base, beautifully maintained parks and much greenery from the common [plus events], sports centre, etc. large student numbers, marina, close & strong links to London, SW, SE & Midlands, Lively port, Large Shopping Centres, Boat Show, New Forest, Good musical heritage, etc. to name but a few) stifled by such a short sighted and hugely incompetent city council. How do we rival the Spinnaker Tower? Shoot laser across the city from the civic centre clock....says it all!! Having over-viewed the new Police Command Unit development at the top of West Quay Rd in Southampton, I'll be very keen to see how the area around the civic centre, the old civic centre and the "new arts quarter" (the square around the old 'Plummer's Building opposite the old Tyrells site) is developed. Please try not to f*ck this up!

Forgot to ask, are you an estate agent or recruitment consultant per chance? :

Now, now!! You don't want to get infractions eh!? Besides, having been born and bred here, that's a pretty accurate opinion to me. Just the fact you've drop kicked your dummy about it doesn't make it arrogant. Unless you think our nightlife and underground music scene rivals the mentioned cities and the council are the epitome of competence? Comparing how Gunwharf was developed and how our city council ruined Ocean Village illustrates a lot. Now go and have a relaxing cup of tea and calm down!

Progressive vibrant city with Top citizens? LMAO More like a mediocre city with bags of potential continuously crippled by an inept & largely incompetent city council. A city waiting for something to happen but let down by useless town planners. A nightlife that has never rivalled major cities like London, Brighton, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle, Nottingham, Leeds, etc. but with a populous that think they're actually better! Don't get me wrong, I don't mind So'ton (I'm entitled to criticise having lived here & spent the last 16 years frequenting the pubs & clubs) but the new socialites seem to have some of the London attitude without the actual premise (or quality venues) to back it up. Saying that, Orange rooms & Revs, etc. are full of estate agents, recruitment consultants, property developers & hairdressers so it is hardly the top end of the city's spectrum of people...no offence to the more moral people on this forum that share the fore-metioned occupations!! ;o)

Am I getting a sense of de ja vu here?

I think Lowe had a different policy and you missed the critical 2 key words. "top" and "talent" (re: the academy). HTH

Who said I was looking for illegal links?! Some Norweigan sports channels used to receive via Sattelite (& broadcast) Premiership live in the UK (one snooker hall in town springs to mind). I've not idea on sports franchise, broadcasting sports licencing or television rights (nor care too much) but do enjoy watching my local team play! Mr Smug Pants!

No, he brought it up first! Nerrr!! You'll never know! :smt008

I'd say the MK Dons free kick was pretty darn good too!! Whilst I challenged the OP, I don't like the antagonistic response from many (attempting to explain the reasoning) but this is TSW. It's par for the course. I gave up caring long ago when a certain...no, I'm actually gonna avoid using posts to slip in a dig at the old regime. Time to let go, the club is now shackle free and moving forwards. Sounds a bit school playground to me. Don't blame it on me, he started it! *points* Still, least you're not hijacking the thread by boring us about your golf! No offence!

It's nice to actually read some cogent debate as opposed to juvenile name calling and screaming from soap boxes (whilst drop kicking dummies and missing the target! Sound familiar? LOL)

I don't think it's all that controversial, just a little misguided. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, try not to jump up and down on your soap box just because some find your viewpoint bizarre. More so as you don't see the games so don't appreciate any of the positivity and feel good factor that the new regime have managed to instill around the city. I personally feel you're looking for a problem that isn't there. All teams prepare for matches. If they don't, they have a manager & coaching set up that are idiots. Let's be frank (League One or not), this is professional football. However, I think you should be more accepting of criticism in the sense that you are always looking from a negative perspective. Fine when things are bad (I'm first to berate people for looking through rose tinted specs at the team in pink & red when management. team performance & transfer policy is a damn right poor and bizarre as per the era of our past, critically flawed chairman, under his idiotic decisions during his destructive dictatorship ) BUT when things are going well for the club, we've lost the 10 point deficit, have a good goal difference, the team are averaging around 3 goals per game (from open play) and having our striker joint top scorer in the league after winning 4 on the trot and 5 unbeaten (6 incl. cup), people find it frustrating for someone to look for negatives. After all, if you're knit picking for something negative when so many good factors have won people over and positivity is crucial for the team/club and a huge influence on future progression, then some will be aggrieved at that attitude. I personally think you have a slight point but it's lost when you consider the possession and effectiveness of Leyton against us. We only drew because we were often poor and sloppy and our finishing was woeful that day (I put it down to just being one of those games when you do everything but put the ball in the net!) We sometimes concede early and let in weak goals but our defence is much more solid, if not always as mobile as ideal. Aerial wise, we're much better and defend set pieces with confidence now. Teams will try and break us down and outwit us but I'd like to think we're doing the same. We don't want so many different systems that the players don't know whether they're coming or going. Pardew seems to be creating a solid mentality and great team spirit and never say die attitude. We finish games stronger than most. However, I do still think we struggle when teams really come at us (with pace and fast, direct play) like during Swindon and Huddersfield (yes, we're a different team now) and, more recently, Bristol. Still, come January I hope some issues may be addressed.

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Noon is a silly time, especially for the travelling fans (both home & away teams) driving after a boozy Xmas day/night. More so the parents who probably don't get chance to sit down & relax with a drink until the kids are in bed on Xmas night. Think of others. 2/3pm is ideal & also allows for a great bubble & squeak to line the stomach & help get you through the rest of the afternoon/evening!

Exactly. However, many on this forum took the p*ss out of Safri for his passing yet when he was away from the squad for the African Nations, our squad was noticeably poorer with his absence. Again, Idiakez was constantly berated but when he was fit, he was a quality passer of the ball & determined & professional. Players get injured & it does frustrates fans but that's life. Look at Le Tiss for that. Managers wanted him fitter due to his unquestionable quality on the ball yet when they pushed him, he got injured. Oakley another good passer & an excellent, Lampard like accurate shot from range. Often in training, often in matches, hard, accurate shooting. We could have done with some of that at Leyton...accurate finishing!

Well said. The middle of the park is often congested & a sea of bodies & decent, ball playing midfielders often go un-noticed yet they are the lynch pin of the team. Ball was a dynamo in midfield, as was Marsden, Case, etc. Players like Carlton Palmer & Viafara broke up the play & often bulldozed the opposition but, like Wotton, their distribution was sometimes questionable. Players who I personally thought did a good job marshalling the midfield (Safri springs to mind as 1 particularly good example) often got chastised (Safri for passing backwards?! WTF?!) It bemused me how narrow minded, fickle & short sighted fans can be. It seems some fans would rather players lose possession than pass sideways or backwards if no clear passing options were available. Funny, people don't moan at United or Arsenal for that yet Safri got slated by some on here. I particularly liked the comment "Good managers really don't need the advice of those fans who are incapable of watching anything other than the man with the ball..."...don't really need to expand on that. Watching Lambert & Connolly for a match helps you realise.

Entirely agree! I'm beginning to hate the Internet in many respects. For sport, news & shopping, it's handy. For things like masquerading channels, purporting to stream non existent television, hackers, finding hidden phone numbers from companies happy to take your money but hide from support & round robin links & dead end searches orchestrated by the unscrupulous b*stards that plague the cyber world, it's both time consuming & feckin' intensely irritating!