hypochondriac

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza/ Fair bit of evidence there for things they are doing. You don't like it but doesn't mean it isn't happening. Why are Hamas not going to similar efforts to highlight what actions they are taking to minimise civilian casualties?

Plenty of statements and detail from Israel themselves about how they are trying to reduce civilian casualties. Where is the Hamas equivalent? Nothing naive about it. There is evidence of actions Hamas is taking to reduce civilian casualties. https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza/

Don't disagree with any of that.

“We don’t want to see innocent civilians caught up in the crossfire between us and Hamas,” Mark Regev said in an MSNBC interview Saturday. “And we’re making a maximum effort and we understand that in many ways the civilian population of Gaza is a victim of that terrible Hamas regime that’s been ruling the Gaza Strip for the last 16 years.” Regev, who is also the former Israeli ambassador to the United Kingdom, said Israel’s government is not considering a ceasefire. “We will continue the operation against Hamas, we will dismantle its military machine, and we will do so in a way that we will try as best as we can to minimize civilian civilians getting caught up in the crossfire,” he said. A resolution to support a ceasefire in the House, led by Rep. Cori Bush (D-Mo.), garnered support from numerous progressive Democrats. It has also led to divisions in the party, as the Biden administration fully backs the Israeli offensive. “I am grieving for every Palestinian, Israeli, and American life lost to this violence, and my heart breaks for all those who will be forever traumatized because of it,” Bush said in a statement introducing her resolution on Monday. “War and retaliatory violence doesn’t achieve accountability or justice; it only leads to more death and human suffering,” she added. Regev defended the Israeli military strategy, saying its strikes on Gaza are reasonable and retaliatory for the initial attacks by Hamas and its capture of hostages. “We don’t target the civilian population of Gaza,” he said. “The truth is, Israel is trying to save lives while Hamas is willing to sacrifice an untold number of Palestinian civilians on the altar of it’s crazy hate and hateful, extreme ideology.” You can disagree with these statements but where are the similar statements from Hamas? Why do you not have Hamas coming out to say they are looking to minimise civilian casualties? Why do you have individual terrorists on whatsapp bragging to their parents about being a hero because they have killed multiple innocent Jews? Where is the Hamas equivalent of this website? https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza/

I'd much rather that no innocent civilians are caught up in this. Ridiculous to think they wouldn't be though. A response from Israel after the barbarism was inevitable and due to the tactics employed by Hamas as outlined above it was always going to happen. No actions from Israel justified the slaughter that happened earlier this month and there is a hint from some on here that Israel sort of brought it on themselves because of their past behaviour. That IMO is shocking.

That's a long way of saying you don't have any evidence. Hamas knows that Israel are looking to reduce civilian casualties which is why they make it as difficult as possible for this to happen to garner sympathy for their cause. It's people like you who do the work for the murderous terrorists.

I haven't seen evidence that Israel know there are no Hamas but have attacked it anyway. There are no examples as far as I am aware of Israel stating their aim is to target civilians. I have seen evidence that Hamas have based themselves in civilian populations and effectively use human shields and carry out attacks from civilian areas and examples of Hamas saying they want to target civilians. Why is it that the majority of rockets that Hamas fires is from built up areas rather than from agricultural areas? Why do Hamas members decline to wear uniforms?: https://stratcomcoe.org/cuploads/pfiles/hamas_human_shields.pdf You've said that essentially Israel have said that they are explicitly targeting civilians. I'm asking for your evidence that that is the case. Plenty of examples of it happening the other way round.

The thing is you can bet your life if the team was entirely black, they'd be getting plaudits for their supposed diversity. It's just a bizarre thing to pick up on.

Kamaldeen, KwP and Carlos are all very frustrated, with Che and Adam, as they are very dangerous players. They are close and we will see this improve what does that mean?

So Hamas create a base of operation in a hospital and start planning and attacking Israel from it. Israel bombs the hospital. Is that Israel explicitly targeting civilians in your mind or is that Hamas manufacturing a situation where civilians are likely to be injured?

Where's the evidence they have explicitly targeted civilians? Unlike Hamas whose stated aim was to target them.

And if going in and getting the terrorists leads to lots of civilian casualties as it undoubtedly will? You'll have the same people upset and saying Israel have murdered people. Hamas insist on hiding in civilian populations because they don't give a fuck about the Palestinian civilians. If they wanted to reduce civilian casualties they could do so but choose not to because they believe it to be good for them when average Palestinians die. At least you recognise that it's not possible for them to look for a peaceful solution following these atrocities unlike some people who effectively want them to do nothing or very little in response to such barbarism.

So what would your response have been then?

That's exactly why world war two is relevant to this discussion (no idea why the fact it was a world war makes it somehow irrelevant.) Arguably force against Hamas is even more justified than against the Nazis given that when the war started they hadn't committed any atrocities against the UK directly. Civilian casualties are unfortunately inevitable and there's plenty of evidence that many in Hamas welcome them because it makes them look more sympathetic. IMO Israel give more of a shit about Palestinians than Hamas do. If Hamas cared they wouldn't be setting up bases in hospitals, using civilians as human shields and forcing civilians to stay in place after evacuation orders.

What would your response to the terrorist attacks have been?

So did the allies murder German children or not? It's their neighbouring population. Plenty of examples of a neighbour attacking the country next to them and causing civilian casualties.

It was disgusting how the allies murdered all those German kids in 1942.

Terrifying. Even if you knew none of the absolutely shocking details of these atrocities, the fact you've got the likes of little Owen Jones, Narinder Kaur, Adil Ray, India Willoughby and Corbyn himself obviously downplaying the actions of Hamas and supporting these disgraceful scenes in London and elsewhere shows you who your bedfellows are if you're on the side of Jihad.

Interesting isn't it. I wonder if there were cast iron proof that it was the Israelis how irrelevant it would be in those circumstances to some people? I think we all know the answer.

Precisely. It's not hard to understand.

Almost indescribably awful. These savages need to have their barbarism revisited on themselves ten fold. Medieval religions need to stay in the dark ages where they belong.

I didn't want us to sell all our players which we didn't end up doing I hope the end. I would have been OK with selling Che had we brought in a adequate replacement.

You do wonder why we signed this guy. I can't see him making any real contributions until December if then. If we had signed someone who wasn't injured then they could have contributed right away. We could have just signed Stewart in January if we wanted him.

Someone should make these. They would be wildly popular.

I agree I don't like a lot of the rhetoric coming from the Israeli government. All I'm saying is I understand some of their reaction given the pressure they are under and the consequences from misreporting.