hypochondriac

Whilst I agree to some extent, we don't really have an end game here as yet. Without allowing Russia to save some sort of face it's not likely to end well. Leaving Russia with nothing to lose isn't a good idea either. Maybe they will assassinate Putin before something really terrible happens but if not then I'm not sure how this ends.

I think there's grains of truth in both interpretations of the facts. Like in most wars there's propaganda on both sides. I'd just like to see evidence of similar persuasiveness to the evidence that the IDF has produced, whichever side you believe.

You don't think a soft touch Israeli government would be attacked?

Your interpretation of the video is selective and bizarre. It said that the civilian population support Hamas who have a clear hatred of Jews. Like I already said, that isn't definitive evidence just because someone from Hamas says it - unlike you I don't swallow Hamas propaganda just because they state something - but if true, its clear that a number of civilians support Hamas who hate Jews. The IDF say in the video that they were targeting tunnels near or under the flats and so logically they may have missed the target or they targeted it on purpose. The reason they didn't give a warning was because they didn't intend on hitting the flats according to them. I don't know the truth of that and neither do you. You believe that the IDF are targeting civilians and it's something you swallow because Hamas told you so

Every bit of information I've read about the subject says that boots on the ground in an urban warfare scenario massively favours the defenders and would undoubtedly lead to much higher Israeli casualties.

OK not a lot of evidence, maybe more or the same amount of evidence than the detailed video and written evidence of the IDF that you dismissed as propaganda and PR with no evidence for that claim. That video was very interesting because it supports what I suspect to be the opinion of many Palestinians - that they support Hamas against the Jews and that Hamas are happy to sacrifice civilians for the greater good. That's what I've said all along.

Interesting cheers. So the Hamas fighter says they are happy to sacrifice themselves and civilians and the civilians support them. Obviously not definitive proof of anything but if true, perhaps shows that some in the civilian population is perhaps not as innocent as they claim (I suppose the fact that Hamas were voted in to lead the is also proof of that.)

Bombing parts of the South (parts which I assume to be something to do with Hamas unless shown evidence to the contrary) is not evidence of indiscriminate bombing. Reducing casualties by instructing civilians to go South does not mean that there will be no casualties, nor does it mean that mistakes would not happen during a war scenario which is what this is. So like I said, I haven't seen evidence of indescriminate bombing in the South.

I didn't say it was proof. I said it provided evidence of the things they are doing. You may disbelieve or disprove the video and written evidence from the IDF and then maybe I'd take your denials of the evidence seriously. Some assertions from someone at the UN isn't evidence of anything.

That isn't an example of indescriminate bombing in the South.

I'd like to see evidence for the assertions of Gutteres.

Please provide evidence of indiscriminate bombing in the South which is what I said. Please don't put words in my mouth.

The UN are a politically captured organisation who can't define what a woman is. I'd have to check myself if they told me that the sky was blue.

I'll comment on the Israeli ground offensive in the South when and if it happens. If they clear out the North and then start indiscriminately bombing the South giving civilians nowhere to go then that is not right but it's speculation at present.

Behave egg- you're better than nonsense like that. Where is your evidence that Israel have not done the things it has outlined on their web page to reduce civilian casualties? If It's your belief that the claims of the IDF are entirely fabricated and they've mocked up a web page with fake videos then presumably you've got evidence to prove this fakery?

You don't believe anything the Israelis say anyway so it's irrelevant if they said what they were going to do.

Thanks. I agree with Martin it's been disappointing that we haven't scored more and I do expect more from some players. Sulemana, Alcaraz and Adams in particular.

Jeez. I thought you weren't responding any longer? I'm tired of your petty comments. I've never claimed to be a blind supporter of everything Israel does, I just don't believe there is a moral equivalence on this issue. Again, why have Hamas not gone to the effort of creating a detailed fictional account of fictional actions they are taking to avoid civilian casualties? Why do they not have video evidence of actions they are taking to do so?

Feck me. Why have Israel gone to the trouble of detailing actions they have taken to reduce civilian casualties? Why have Hamas not done the same?

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza/ Fair bit of evidence there for things they are doing. You don't like it but doesn't mean it isn't happening. Why are Hamas not going to similar efforts to highlight what actions they are taking to minimise civilian casualties?

Plenty of statements and detail from Israel themselves about how they are trying to reduce civilian casualties. Where is the Hamas equivalent? Nothing naive about it. There is evidence of actions Hamas is taking to reduce civilian casualties. https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza/

Don't disagree with any of that.

“We don’t want to see innocent civilians caught up in the crossfire between us and Hamas,” Mark Regev said in an MSNBC interview Saturday. “And we’re making a maximum effort and we understand that in many ways the civilian population of Gaza is a victim of that terrible Hamas regime that’s been ruling the Gaza Strip for the last 16 years.” Regev, who is also the former Israeli ambassador to the United Kingdom, said Israel’s government is not considering a ceasefire. “We will continue the operation against Hamas, we will dismantle its military machine, and we will do so in a way that we will try as best as we can to minimize civilian civilians getting caught up in the crossfire,” he said. A resolution to support a ceasefire in the House, led by Rep. Cori Bush (D-Mo.), garnered support from numerous progressive Democrats. It has also led to divisions in the party, as the Biden administration fully backs the Israeli offensive. “I am grieving for every Palestinian, Israeli, and American life lost to this violence, and my heart breaks for all those who will be forever traumatized because of it,” Bush said in a statement introducing her resolution on Monday. “War and retaliatory violence doesn’t achieve accountability or justice; it only leads to more death and human suffering,” she added. Regev defended the Israeli military strategy, saying its strikes on Gaza are reasonable and retaliatory for the initial attacks by Hamas and its capture of hostages. “We don’t target the civilian population of Gaza,” he said. “The truth is, Israel is trying to save lives while Hamas is willing to sacrifice an untold number of Palestinian civilians on the altar of it’s crazy hate and hateful, extreme ideology.” You can disagree with these statements but where are the similar statements from Hamas? Why do you not have Hamas coming out to say they are looking to minimise civilian casualties? Why do you have individual terrorists on whatsapp bragging to their parents about being a hero because they have killed multiple innocent Jews? Where is the Hamas equivalent of this website? https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-hamas-terrorist-organization/how-is-the-idf-minimizing-harm-to-civilians-in-gaza/

I'd much rather that no innocent civilians are caught up in this. Ridiculous to think they wouldn't be though. A response from Israel after the barbarism was inevitable and due to the tactics employed by Hamas as outlined above it was always going to happen. No actions from Israel justified the slaughter that happened earlier this month and there is a hint from some on here that Israel sort of brought it on themselves because of their past behaviour. That IMO is shocking.

That's a long way of saying you don't have any evidence. Hamas knows that Israel are looking to reduce civilian casualties which is why they make it as difficult as possible for this to happen to garner sympathy for their cause. It's people like you who do the work for the murderous terrorists.