hypochondriac

It's not ridiculous at all. I don't know if any of them will be any good, but teams buy individual players from relegated teams all the time and they are often bargains. I'd take a few of Fulham's players for definite.

You'd probably learn a lot from boning Yoshida.

It's scary to think that people with the mindset of soggy potentially had even a small influence over court decisions.

1 more poibt will see us safe for sure. That would mean both Brighton probably needing 5 points and Cardiff needing 7 which isn't going to happen.

And note that once again he makes these totally unsubstantiated claims without being able to provide a scintilla of evidence. He's a disgrace.

The allegations are from victims of IS. Personally I'd be more inclined to believe victims of the terrorist regime than someone who ran off to support them and its now in her interest to play down her involvement in it. It's really really odd that you'd prefer to side with the terrorist in order to suit your twisted ideology.

Whenever he inevitably loses an argument, his response is to make up claims about what someone else has said in the hope that no one will notice. Fails every time.

He clearly has an ingrained prejudice against them. As you say its very strange.

Questioning the original verdict based on the facts of the case does not equal "supporting" Ched Evan's actions. It is possible to be critical of the man's actions whilst being glad that justice seems to have been served and that he has been found innocent of a crime that there was not enough evidence to say beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed.

It's a damn shame to be honest considering the Sunday paper revelations but I suppose you could argue that even the worst people in the world deserve legal representation. Its not easy to swallow though.

So now that we can be pretty sure that she was not "just a housewife" presumably your opinion will have changed? Or will you be sticking doggedly to your position regardless of the facts as per usual?

Sounds like they may be able to save some of it which would be good.

So now it moves onto "if the CPS decide to prosecute someone then I believe that that person is always guilty even if they are subsequently acquitted at a trial because the CPS are professionals." Unbelievable.

It was awful and the worst bit was how long it took to sort it out!

That's not the comparison I'm making at all. You're the one saying we have to listen and believe someone simply because of the colour of someone's skin. We shouldn't disbelieve any reports of racism but you're the one deliberately exaggerating the horrible scourge that is racism to push your specific political agenda. Reports of racism should be investigated and the appropriate action taken where individuals can be identified. Pretending that the majority of people in a crowd are racist is unhelpful and a distortion of the truth.

Yes seems fair comment. There are racist idiots in society and some go to the football and they need to be dealt with.

Listen and believe BAME people always right verbal? Like Jussie Smollett?

Not being sure that someone has committed a crime is categorically NOT the same as "assuming someone is innocent." Surely you can see the clear difference??? If you can't then I can't think of another way of explaining it. Not being sure is not the same as assuming innocence I'm not sure why you are having difficulty here unless you are wilfully misinterpreting what I said?

No I didn't. You seem to reply in a reasonable manner and then you let yourself down by simply lying. I said that after looking at the case it wouldn't surprise me if the verdict was overturned and that I think he has a good chance of an appeal succeeding. There was no "assumption" of innocence at all after the initial guilty verdict until he was subsequently found not guilty and then he is "innocent until proven guilty". Or as Lord Duckhunter said, are you saying that you are less innocent if you are convicted and then a conviction is overturned?

Well we are in agreement on that score then. It's a shame that others did not take a similar view at the time of the original conviction and this thread wouldn't be as long.

So who decides then? I'm well aware that the justice system is not perfect and that people get convicted when they are innocent and found innocent when they are guilty all the time but as a society we have collectively agreed to follow innocent until proven guilty in a court of law as a standard, otherwise anyone accused of a crime in court and then found not guilty or acquitted is never truly innocent even if they never did anything. Should all people acquitted by the courts be treated with suspicion or not as innocent people simply because they have been accused? By that logic I could accuse you of a crime that you are acquitted of yet still suggest you're not actually innocent of the crime.

Good of you to admit that at least. Most would stay quiet!

Who decides innocence then if not the courts? Maybe we should open up every acquittal to the court of public opinion after the real trial so we can decide how someone should be treated?

Initially I only posted my thoughts on the case once, it was the likes of soggy smearing posters like me as a rape apologist among other slurs that provoked the continuous debate. I don't agree with your assertion that I've played "judge and jury" and I don't believe there is evidence of that here, but the jury have ultimately agreed with my opinion on the case which is not the same thing at all. Again you're making quite a few of these assertions but you're not prepared to find examples so it's probably best not to throw things like this around if they are baseless. I said that looking at the facts it does not appear that Ched Evans should have been found guilty of raping this woman and subsequently the courts have found this opinion to be the correct one. You can disagree of course if you've actually read into the details but the difference is I'm not the one screaming insults at your or falsely smearing you for doing so. I don't believe we should start saying things like "I don't think you should be charged with this crime and the legal process - that is not corrupt as far as we know- has shown this to be the case but I still think you did it and will suggest you did anyway." Otherwise how can we be sure of any conviction? Should everyone convicted of a crime and subsequently acquitted be treated as if they did it anyway even if the defendent is an a*sehole? Let's also be clear as I've said many times here that Ched Evans is clearly not a pleasant individual but the reason this thread has dragged on as long as it has is because there are certain individuals who believe that there should be a different standard for how we treat people based on someone's race, sex, gender, personality etc and my point has always been that people should be treated equally before the law. In summary, we have lots of evidence to suggest that Ched Evans acted extremely poorly and that he is an unpleasant person and we currently have no evidence that Ched Evans has committed a crime so as a society we cannot act as if he is a criminal because that's not how the justice system works. Soggy and people in general may believe that someone acquitted of rape may be guilty of a crime but we are ill equipped to make that judgement ourselves which is why we rely on the justice system to make that determination for us. We can't start arbitrarily assigning guilt or innocence on someone based on how we feel about them because that's madness. And soggy has absolutely looked massively foolish. Jumping in screaming rape apologist and all sorts of baseless slurs at anyone who suggested the verdict may be overturned is pretty disgusting to be honest and even more so when it's clear that this "defence" is employed because Ched is white, male and "provilidged." You'd think it would make him think twice before engaging in that sort of behaviour in the future.

I doubt it let's not kid ourselves. The good news is if he leaves for a top club it will probably be because he has done great here and we will hopefully be in a good position to replace with a koeman type to keep the good times rolling.