hypochondriac

Soares, vvd and Bertrand are most likely off this summer so replacements for them are the priorities. Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

Another truck of peace making its way peacefully through Stockholm.

I have to admit this did make me chuckle

We used to have a Liverpool bloke post on here with a godfather avatar. Good to see you and always wish Newcastle well.

When the white man doctrine tells people to kill the unbeliever and to wage jihad on them then you may be more likely to hear it referred to as a white people problem.

100% this. I am in total agreement.

That seems like a disproportionate response to me and penalises Christian faith schools who as far as I am aware have never been linked to ghettoisation

A really good link. Here is someone who recognises that their community needs to do more and is working to fight back. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/westminster-attack-terrorism-prevent-strategy-fundraising-peace-a7647481.html

It's an Internet forum you spanner.

Everyone has a duty to report terrorism or potential terrorist threats if they believe that sort of thing is happening. I agree that community leaders have a responsibility but so too do others. If Islam is a religion of peace that has been hijacked as some claim then why has more not been done to counter this perception and smearing of a peaceful religion?

Only Sour Mash has made that argument recently on here. Not only would his solution be ineffective for the reasons you have described, it is also likely to create even greater anger towards the west. I'm not necessarily against greater immigration checks as long as it's proven to be a sensible and proportionate measure but as you said, the real issues need to be combated from within the Islamic community and that needs to be initiated by the community itself.

Britain and the west in general could absolutely do more and that's what I think partly this populism thing is all about - standing up in defence of western values and being more confident about promoting the positive aspects of the West and rejecting regressive doctrine even in the face of claims of racism and Islamaphobia. Standing up to the Saudis is always going to be more difficult due to the power they wield but I would hope there could be some sort of concerted effort along with the effort from the Islamic community itself which I have already outlined.

Even if we were to assume your suggestion that he never was a Muslim is correct, do you not agree that the religion still has a huge problem as it seems to attract thousands of non Muslims who commit atrocities in its name? I don't really care if we want to call any of these terrorists Muslim or not (the Muslim caller claimed yesterday only God would know that for certain), what I do care about is that certain people, organisations and teachings within the religion are committing terrorist acts and it needs the assistance of the majority of Muslims from the West in order to combat it effectively.

A very interesting call yesterday on LBC from a practising Muslim who was urging his fellow Muslims in Britain to do more to reject the influence of IS and lamenting the lack of action from their community. Difficult to argue with what he said.

So the Islamic religion can absolve itself of any responsibility at all by claiming that every single terrorist attack committed by a 'Muslim' is actually not committed by a Muslim and actually they were never Muslims at any point. How many attacks can be purportrated by these individuals before we question that narrative?

Indeed it is. Responses like this should be applauded and seeds like this should be cultivated throughout Islamic society.

I never claimed there were any apologists for this specific event, rather I said there has been a denial and downplaying of the problem and a refusal to address where the issues stem from on this thread which amounts to apologism. That has been addressed throughout the entire thread and the funny thing is that if it were accepted in wider socoety that the Muslim community need to take their share of responsibility for sorting this out then the problem would be reduced much quicker in my opinion. People are paralysed by political correctness and the desire not to be seen as racist so very little gets done. If I were a religious person and weekly atrocities were being committed in the name of my religion and my community then I would be demanding that something was done, I would be personally affronted that this was happening and look to work with the authorities in whatever way I can to report anyone I had suspicions about and drive this extremist element out of my life and community. There are some Muslims who have sought to do this but you only have to listen to the radio phone in shows today and on previous occasions and on Twitter etc to see the number who want to deny the link exists or who think acts like this are in some way justified. No doubt there are a number of peaceful and lovely 'Muslims' who clearly pick and choose what they want to believe from the Qaran (some would argue this makes them inoslamic), but you will find that even then according to stats a majority of Muslims in Britain have some absolutely abhorrent views about gay people, Jewish people or minorities (my father in law and the rest of his community for instance would not have accepted my wife's brother if he were gay or if anyone in the family had married a black person.) It's undeniable that the Islamic religion has a problem with extremism that it needs to address, along with more moderate groups who need to admit the problem and propose rational ideas for fighting it otherwise the far right is unfortunately going to become more popular as they are currently the only ones unafraid about political correctness and the only ones discussing this issue and giving people a voice. I don't think any sane person wants the likes of Tommy Robinson screaming about terrorism immediately following an attack but if this problem refuses to be addressed sensibly by mainstream society then this is only going to happen more. It's a similar thing with Brexit where people were sick of their valid concerns being ignored or being caricatured as racists and xenophobes.

Lots of people saying this bloke was not a Muslim. What I want to know is at what point did he stop becoming one? The moment he killed someone? If so I'm concerned by the amount of ex Muslims in recent years who have only announced their apostasy by killing and maiming other people.

Yep but I'm not sure how that can happen when some of the public won't even accept that it's a problem coming from within the Islamic religion.

We have had this conversation before soggy. Last time this happened you could identify two comments from two posters that amounted to "slagging off all Muslims." I emphasised the fact that it's actually a tiny number who condemn ALL Muslims but I condemned the two comments that said so. You're going to have to try harder to find that non-existent Islamaphobia.

The common refrain from you soggy and others like you when someone brings up Islamic terrorism and how a majority of Muslims believe some despicable things are things like "Christians are just as bad" "what about the crusades?" "Nazis were Christian you know" "lets just talk to IS we don't have to get rid of them." You tie yourself up in knots trying to downplay the effect of radical Islam over the last 20 years and absolutely refusing to concede that some of the responsibility for this rests on the shoulders of the Islamic communities in the UK. I condemn all forms of extremism but it is clear for all to see that it's the extremism emanating from the Islamic community that has been the cause of an overwhelming number of deaths and appaling crimes in recent years. The simple truth is that many Muslims have some hideously regressive views that should be abhorrent to anyone who values Western values and freedom. Islamic extremism is a threat to our society and needs to be urgently tackled both by Western society and in the Islamic communities themselves. Do you disagree?

That isn't what I mean at all. Anyone who thinks that every Muslim is a terrorist is frankly an idiot. I am married to someone from an Islamic background where most of her family are Muslims so I know more than most that not every person is a terrorist (though why you feel this needs repeating for the billionth time I have no idea.) When someone wants to have an honest discussion about the problem with Islamic extremism and how it can be combated in the West and within Islamic communities then most of the time they are accused of Islamaphobia, called racists and mindless comparisons are brought out about the crusades, christian Nazis and the KKK from 50 years ago which is the equivalent to sticking fingers in ears and humming loudly. Frankly you have simply not read the thread if you believe there is not a denial from many about this problem which I and others believe amounts to an apologist attitude. Radical Islamic terror- particularly the kind exported over the last 20 years is a real problem that needs to be urgently tackled in the West and in the Islamic community. Many will not even admit there is a problem.

Not sure why people get so angry about the BBC supposedly being biased. I expect they probably are in some circumstances but I trust myself to seek out other sources as well so I can get a balanced viewpoint. There is always left wing and right wing sources worthy of a read and actually sometimes I have noticed that the BBC will give too much credence to an outlandish view in their desire to present 'the other side'.

Indeed but what I will say is people sticking their fingers in their ears every time this happens does not help things at all.

Read this thread would be my suggestion. It's absolutely packed with it.