derry

Thirty seconds in after the hair dryer treatment we would be playing like champions.

That's the sum of it. The lack of width is killing us. If Holmes is fit he could help us on the left. Apparently they were setting up plays this week with wingers and fullbacks overlapping and his crossing was spot on. I'd take a punt on Waigo wide right and the two centre forwards up front. Until they solve that problem they are going nowhere. Let me know if you are and we will try and meet up. JH and AW are always around also a few of us on here meet up once a month Weston, FF, Teddy Nutkins, Corsacar Saint, Exit2.

The patience of Job is needed here Bill. Every week it is the same narrow crap, snatched chances from scraps with loads of defenders doubling up because we are so narrow with no pace. Adam Leitch of the Echo was the co commentator and said we were better in the first half but no pace and became narrow with no pace in the second half. N'Diaye and Holmes seemed to liven things up a bit, Lallana played his usual three positions. I'd like to see a team without him for once to see if we could possibly look like a football team. Only three goals from play in nine games one by a full back is a hell of an indictment on the way we play. We started the season 10 points off safety and we are still 10 points off safety 9 games in. The cup winning team photo was in the pink last week.

I didn't say width is everything, what I did say is that lack of it is stopping us scoring goals from play. Gillett isn't the answer to the right wide problem, neither are Lallana, Mellis and James. In the interim I think he might possibly make a better fist of it than the other three. He certainly wouldn't be any worse. Another way may be to play Holmes on the right with Mills left. Saganowski played there for Poland and might be worth a try. I'm suggesting alternatives pending a proper solution which unless N'diaye is the answer isn't available within the present staff. I'm looking for alternatives to the present dilemma not presenting it as a solution.

At least somebody sees the problem. We can't play an advanced interchanging system wide as the players aren't up to it. Holmes will play wide and I have seen him play, he works hard wide and gets to the byeline and hangs up crosses on the back post. I would like to see Gillett given a go wide right, he is busy, right sided and can cross and would play wide as he did well in the Stoke friendly last year. Unless we play down the touchlines after the central midfielders spread the play they don't have time to make the runs into the box. At the moment they can't get up to support the strikers because we are so narrow and the shallow balls up to the strikers are leaving them no time to get forward. Because we are so narrow the central midfielders pass it sideways and more often than not it ends up going back to the back four and then the goalkeeper to be then hit long. All this could be alleviated with two wide players, the blindside player can come in on the 45 and attack the back post and the two central midfielders can make runs and support the strikers who also can now pull away and take the defenders away to make space for the runners then peel off back into the box. The movement then created causes the best defences problems.

Of course they do, it's just that they don't use orthodox wingers they interchange and usually two or three players play out on the touchlines. No decent team plays narrow they all exploit width. As soon as one comes inside another goes down the touchline. Lack of width is a fundamental weakness with us and our paltry three goals from play in eight games is in the main down to that. Our players are pretty poor and I wouldn't expect them to interchange in the same way but we would improve if the wide midfielders played wide.

After writing the following I read your post on the Papa injury thread. Quite how you can revert to sarcasm about the opinions of people that have actually seen him play when all you know is how to spell his name is stupidity. The width is paramount, a smart last defender will just step up, the attacker will have to bend his runs or start in his own half not to be offside. In any event if we stay narrow without pace down the flanks there won't be anywhere for him to run. On Saturday in the few minutes he was on, he was caught offside on nearly every occasion he was put through, wide or central but he does have pace and he has more chance of staying onside wide. He had a lot more room as Yeovil were two goals down and leaving space at the back. At 0-0 he may well find the clattering he would get from centre backs difficult with the ball being belted up to him and Lambert. Pardew is obviously not happy about him at the moment or he would be playing somewhere, together with the fact he didn't perform particularly well before he was clattered against Reading reserves.

Or catch him offside. We need to get down the touchlines. Sticking to a narrow formation forces aimless balls, we need to get some space between the back four which will allow runs through the channels, without width it just can't happen.

I've always felt that Dyer could have been potent but he always made the mistake of running with the ball close, taking lots of touches and trying to trick the defender, more often than not being stopped in his tracks. He consequentley didn't use his pace, he also tended to be narrow. If he had taken the ball close to the defender and knocked it ten yds down the touchline, then used his pace and knocked it towards the corner and ran the covering defender he may well have been more effective and dragged the central defenders out of the middle. It seemed that he had no coaching in how best to use his pace running without the ball close. Adding that to the close control could have made him a big threat. I would certainly take him on our right side.

This is historical and goes back some time. I would go so far as to say we shouldn't sign anyone who doesn't have pace. For me it is Pace Then Quality. One without the other is useless leading in our case to a lot of reasonable players lacking pace.

The attack isn't just the two strikers but we don't seem to know that. Two wide men would allow time for the two central midfielders to get up in support. I wouldn't criticise the two strikers as they have a thankless task and need support and service. The two strikers are just feeding off scraps and we are toothless, 8 games, 7 goals, three penalties, one header from a corner and a fullback from a knockdown. The other two goals, Paterson in the first game and Lallana's first league goal in a year.

Lallana doesn't seem to fit easily or naturally into any category, James similarly and is slow wherever he plays, jack of all trades and master of none comes to mind. Mills is a full back, Thomson is a poor wide right, McLaggon, Mellis, N'Diaye are really unknowns. We are in need of proper naturally pacy wide players for both sides, that would allow N'Diaye if fit to play up front, however I'm not holding my breath. Holmes whilst not pacy is a natural wide left midfielder. Picking players on the wrong side, and in unfamiliar positions is happening all the time and we are paying the price of an unbalanced and toothless attack.

While this was going on Mike Osman told me he understood the Swiss had no problems on the money front. At the same time he expressed massive doubts that Pinnacle could raise the funds. Bearing in mind his connection with MLT that was pretty radical.

Not for me, there is little evidence that these players can think for themselves. 4-4-2 is the simplest way to play with round pegs in round holes. Very few teams play without width and appear to be a lot smarter than us with their team selection giving their team more than the sum of the parts. We have underperformed regularly as a succession of managers pick favourites and shoehorn them into positions they can't play. If we could just drop the 'sacred cow' selection principle and make the selection criteria suitability for the position, I think we would improve immeasurably The output of a team is measured by the way the players fit and balance each other. We on the other hand accept a lack of balance and consequently can't score enough goals.

I don't think we have seen the best of either Schneiderlin or indeed Saganowski. When Holmes was playing at the start of last season Schneiderlin was much better. For that reason I would prefer Holmes wide left with Mills as backup. Saganowski is a battler and alongside Lambert would occupy the centrebacks. Waigo wouldn't be wasted on the right as he looked to drift out right on Saturday anyway, however if we can cure the left side he can come in on the 45 and be lethal on the back post. His speed will allow through balls and runs inside the fullback in any event. Playing wide will give him more room and drag out the fullbacks as he goes down the line leaving space on the back post and splitting the centre backs giving room for Lambert and Saganowski to get in behind them. In that event I would also like to see both central midfielders become runners into the box in support once the ball goes wide. That in itself will force the opponents midfielders deep.

Diving header in his first game! We are not getting down the lines, until we play with proper width on both sides he will be feeding off scraps.

Spot on Ron. It was bloody dire again on Saturday with no width, no crosses and nothing out of midfield. Saganowski did win the first penalty. The rest of the time they were feeding off scraps marked by the back four, because Lallana and James were narrow, allowing the fullbacks to tuck in alongside the central defenders and outnumber our two strikers. Bloody hopeless!

Sooner rather than later because we won't score consistently with those two playing, they will get left out. Lallana might be tried as a striker but he isn't producing and as time passes Waigo, Holmes and Mills are stepping up their challenge. I can see Waigo wide right unless he replaces Saganowski but I would be surprised if Saganowski is left out, he did earn the penalty, that leaves only wide left and up front for Lallana. He doesn't produce wide left and I would be surprised if he could become a consistent scorer.

The reason Schneiderlin isn't effective at the moment is the narrow way we play. His first reaction is to release the ball wide and back it up. As Lallana and James don't have the first idea how to play a wide midfield role there is nobody wide so the ball goes long, inside or backwards. It is bloody hopeless and until we get two wide players we are going nowhere. Now we have a decent back four, we don't need comfort zone midfielders sitting, we need the team moving up and back as a unit attacking with 6/7 and defending with the same numbers. Hammond, Schneiderlin and anybody else who plays in midfield needs to start getting up to support the strikers, but to do that the wide players have to get down the flanks. Lallana either needs to be played alongside Lambert if they want him to play or leave him out. The way he plays is a fundamental impediment to us scoring sufficient goals to win the majority of our matches.

Because of the lack of balance in the team and the obsession with finding somewhere for Lallana to play, together with the ponderous James on the other side, we have no width, no pace, don't get down the touchlines and provide nothing in the way of chances to the strikers. Until we get a quick wide right player Waigo would be an option whilst Holmes/Mills should be picked on the left. Pardew is sacrificing the balance and the possibility of scoring goals from play by playing Lallana and James because both play nearer the centre of the field than wide allowing the fullbacks to close up with the centre backs and stifle the strikers. Neither Hammond or Schneiderlin commit themselves to runs from the centre so the opponents midfielders together with the compacted defence can reinforce and outnumber our attackers. Now that we have two strong centre backs we don't need two central midfielders sitting in front of them. We have scored a paltry 7 goals in 8 league matches and only 2 from play, unless we sort this out we won't score enough goals.

An ugly win and I'm grateful to the referee. The back five are solid, so are the two central midfielders. Lambert is more abused than used he must be really fed up with the lack of proper chances. Saganowski looked off the pace but the little Yeovil CB was quick. The side lacks balance which is down to trying to accommodate Lallana. If we want to start playing like a team we have to dump this make do and mend approach to picking the wide men. We need to play proper wide men on both sides. Lallana should be selected as a second striker or not at all, his play on the left and a slow fullback on the right means we have no penetration. We have scored 7 goals in 8 games and only 2 from play, that doesn't cut it any way you want to look at it. Balance and pace are lacking and need to be introduced immediately. I would still play Lambert and Saganowski in the absence of a quick right sided player with Waigo wide right and Holmes/Mills wide left, until we do this, the strikers are living off scraps and we will not score enough goals.

Terry Paine was the best crosser of a ball I have ever seen. Terry Paine used to hang the ball up for Ron Davies. I don't ever remember him hitting in crosses. John Sydenham on the other hand did but they weren't as effective. It is a popular myth that crosses have to be hit in with pace. Top headers of the ball attacking the back of the box prefer a ball that is hung up about 15ft reaching it's peak just goalside of the penalty spot and dropping fairly sharply towards head height. The defenders are taken out of the equation and the goalkeeper can't get near the ball. The best headers of the ball don't stand under the flight in the area but run in from outside the area. Something we don't do. I have a feeling that Jaidi well might. Whipping in crosses gives the defenders a better chance to get them away it is only superb glancers of the ball that can benefit from the pace. It also means that overhit crosses are out of play the other side and underhit won't clear the first defender. How often do we do that.

Difficult not being paid FFS!!!! £200k annual signing on fee plus £8000 a week. They were paid within the month but he must have been struggling.

I hope so too but you may well be right. That's probably why there are only a few successful managers and a majority that let fear rule.

I don't think the second paragraph is inaccurate as we don't get the wide crosses in from both sides. That's what I mean by balance. I see the midfield as a compromise at the moment. I know a lot on here and the management are desperately hoping that Lallana will suddenly produce and the team will click. I think the the management see their dilemma but are hoping things improve. I think shortly, however much they want to play Lallana unless the team click they will pick Waigo, Hammond, Schneiderlin and Holmes in midfield. They may give him a go alongside Lambert but he would have to become a regular goalscorer.