CHAPEL END CHARLIE

The Middlesbrough story should be a sobering tale to all those who like to issue lectures on the benefits of never sacking a manager as if this policy came with success guaranteed , you're just as likely to err by opting to 'stick' rather than 'twist' it seems . If their Chairman had acted sooner and axed Gareth nice-but-dim Southgate they may well have avoided relegation and the financial disaster that comes with it . As for worrying that they might came after Alan Pardew it seems to me highly unlikely that AP would get or accept any such offer .

How do explain that 'undeniable fact' ? A decent enough player for us last season suddenly becomes hopeless under a new manager . There must be a reason .

You've a good eye for players Gordon (my code for saying I agree with you) Murty walks right back into the team when fit I'd say . Lloyd James has yet to show me he has anything special to offer while Murty on the other hand is surely a very good player at this level . While we're on the subject of 'nothing special' the praise Wotton seems to be receiving from all and sundry has to be challenged , what does he do for us exactly ? Is he quick - Far from it Good in the air - Average I'd say Goal threat - Clearly not Distribution - Poor Stamina - He's no Jhon Viafara is he ? Tackling - Fair Attitude - Good Frankly there are any number of younger fitter players who can do all of that or more for you (the unwanted Simon Gillett being one of them) so the 'Paul Wotton is our Claude Makelele' argument leaves me unimpressed - this 'king' has no clothes . Your point regarding Safri is a telling one , Youssef Safri is twice the player Wotton will ever be and would still be an massive asset for this club - anyone who can't tell the difference midfielders like Wotton (journeyman) and Safri (class) needs to have a very strong word with themselves .

I see someone from 'another place' reckons Graeme Murty will struggle to displace Lloyd James from the Right Back position if/when he regains his fitness . http://www.clubfanzine.com/southampton/v2.showNews.php?id=26636 I think a fit Murty is a obvious first choice for that place but what do you think ?

We all seem convinced our nadir belongs to history now and not the unknowable future , I admire (and share in for what it's worth) the optimism . The exact moment is far less important than the fact that whenever it was it's behind us now hopefully . Spare a thought my friends for the many 100's of Saints fans who have passed away during the last 4 years and never got a chance to celebrate our grand old club's salvation . Bless 'em all .

I see Jhon (or John) Viafara scored for Caldas last weekend .

That was Danish Saint from Copenhagen University studying the Bleeding obvious .

If we ever do get back to the EPL one day I think the 15-20k fans who have stuck by this club through thick and thin (mostly thin) should have their loyalty recognised in some way .

Maybe it is our time to shine Wes , heaven knows we've all suffered long enough . Skeptical as I am I can assure anyone reading this that a period of prolonged success leading to promotion this season would see my joy utterly overwhelm any sense of embarrassment for my failure to predict it . Secretly I'm starting to dream that the play-offs might just be possible this season - but don't tell NickG he'll never let me forget it

For this forum to prosper we probably need the club to struggle perversely - just imagine how dull it would be on here if we won every game from now until next May and had automatic promotion wrapped up my April . :smt009 I've been following this club long enough to know SFC wouldn't do that to us .

Lambert and Connolly or Saga and Rasiak - which do we prefer I wonder ?

I remember the Bizzol manager saying the deal we were offering RL (in terms of pay) was extremely generous - an offer he couldn't refuse almost . It seems odd this player hasn't risen higher in the game because the quality is there for all to see .

In this day and age it should be possible for fans of all football league teams to receive a better service than this . Is it impossible for the BBC to provide a local version of this programme over the iPlayer ? The rights have been paid for and the cameras are there anyway so why not use that footage , split the programme so that each BBC TV region presents a version that concentrates on the teams in their area . I find wading through a hour of TV just to find 1 minute of your teams game to be a singularly unsatisfactory experience .

Claude Makalele = Aston Martin Paul Wotton = Austin Morris

9 points out of 9 - Not too shabby I suppose , I make that a points average of 3 a game NickG The red and white Panzer Division steamrollers all before it ....

The question of the technological development of early civilisations needs no extra terrestial explanations , our ancestors possessed brains of exactly the same structure and potential as ours today - they were merely labouring under the disadvantage of having to start from scratch as it were . Modern man however has the inestimable advantage of having a enormous body of scientific discovery as a starting point ('standing on the shoulders of giants') - where would the 'The Large Hadron Collider' be without the work of Albert Einstein or Professor Hawkins with no Newton for example ? The ancient Egyptian example makes a good illustration of the point . That civilisations most obvious achievement - the 'Great Pyramids' of the Giza plateau - did not mysteriously spring fully formed into the world from nothing but are in fact the culmination of centuries of development from the small Mastaba tombs of the pre-dynastic era through the subsequent 'Step Pyramid' design to the ultimate form we can still see today (in all its glorious perfection) at Giza . No alien blueprint is required to explain these magnificent structures , they are clearly the result of human intelligence and labour , to argue otherwise is to grievously insult and underestimate our own species . As for evolution Science Fiction's better writers have postulated that humanity is now in the process of evolving into a new rapidly developing form . It is argued that the process of evolution is itself evolving from its biological beginnings into a technological future . We already see the human body being adapted with implants (pacemakers , artificial limbs ..etc) this process may within the not too distant future see humanity alter almost beyond recognition . In the future an advanced hybrid between man and machine (or a genetically adapted body) perhaps even a purely artificial sentient 'life-form' (read Asimov's 'Bicentennial Man') may replace or supplement Homo Sapiens - please don't allow a 100 silly movies to convince you that's necessarily a negative development . Such a creation would represent our evolution (the child of mankind in a sense) , if we do it right they could represent all that's best of humanity without being saddled with its numerous limitations or folly's .

I respect both your honesty and your faith David - but for me it just doesn't seem right somehow that we have to accept that the purpose and will of God is unknowable to mankind - I find it hard to believe that anything is inconceivable to the human imagination - that may well be my arrogance . I often ask myself what would I have done if I had been a German soldier during World War II and I'd been ordered to take a part in the Final Solution , in my darkest moments I fear (I know) the terrible truth is that I wouldn't have the courage to make a stand and do the right thing - I'd be just another member of that doomed and damned generation 'Hitler's willing executioners' as they were so memorably described . Maybe that why I've no faith in God - because I can't see any divine spark in myself and am I not supposed to be made in his image ? In the absence of faith all I can do is try and be the best person I can based on my own moral code , I struggle daily to contain the dark side of my nature , I support my friends and family as best I can and above all I cherish the children my life is blessed with - if there is a God that believes in me more than I believe in him then I hope he approves . And with that I think I'll leave the subject of religion as I fear I've bored the forum for long enough .

I feel like a fraud discussing religion with educated people such as your good self as frankly you've probably forgotten much more about the subject than I'll ever know , suffice it to say I accept your point regarding the difficulty of measuring church attendance without reservation . As for the Bible using analogies to teach and spread its message there must be much truth in this also , although I have to say that until relatively recently (and to this very day in some fundamentalist communities) when he parish priest preaches to his congregation that God created the world in 7 days for instance I strongly suspect he meant that to be understood as the literal truth without any nuance or interpretation being needed or indeed tolerated . I hope you'll indulge me if I explain how I lost my personal faith in God during childhood without interpreting that as some attack on those who hold their faith close to their hearts . The story goes back to the early 1970's when yours truly was an avid 12 year old history enthusiast engrossed in quite the finest television series ever broadcast - The World at War - the great series came to a sublimely elegant and well made episode dealing with Nazi Germany's 'Final Solution' ...... I can only say it was a moment of revelation for me (an epiphany if you like) I sat there my young mind struggling to cope with the full horror of what was laid before me . I learnt truths about the world that night that have never left me , I learnt (as a concentration camp survivor testified) that in the right circumstances a human being will do anything to live another hour , I saw innocent children being herded into gas chambers , I saw huge piles of discarded shoes and eye glasses stolen from murdered Jews as their emaciated bodies were cast into the oven or the pit and I 'knew' then and there that there was no God - at least no God that intervened in the affairs of men or that cared to answer a desperate child's prayers . I know the Church says that these crimes were the acts of man (how very true) and that God must give us free will , but how could he allow this ? To my mind the answer seemed so obvious - God had abandoned Humanity and we were alone in a universe utterly indifferent to our fate . If there were more people who practised Christ's central message of love and forgiveness then this world would surly be a far better place for us all - I envy the faithful - I just can't share in their faith anymore .

If he's half as frightening as his dad Brian was in this movie then sign him up I say . "Have you ever seen Human blood under moonlight ? it appears quite black"

Religion in some form seems to be almost as old as mankind itself , it clearly has performed a deep seated need to explain the mysteries of existence before any strictly rational , evidence based explanations became widely available . The modern world provides convincing scientific answers as to how the universe really works (incomplete as they clearly are) and this must surly go a long way towards explaining why belief in organised religion is in long term decline in educated western society at least . For example who really believes anymore that the Earth was created complete by God in 6 days a few thousand years ago when the fossil record , Darwin's 'Origin of Species' and a mass of incontrovertible geological evidence tells you something very different ? If you can intellectually except the bleak 'truth' that death is truly the final end of a human beings existence (as I have) and that Heaven or Hell and the very idea of the Human Soul are merely the inventions of mankind then the final need for religious faith must fade into history - this is humanity's distant future I believe . Not everyone is prepared to accept the above however and why should they ? For countless millions of perfectly bright and intelligent people the need for life to hold some greater meaning than just the struggle for survival and the understandable human desire for belief in a afterlife require that faith in some power greater than themselves is manifested - this inherent need is the basic underpinning of all religious faith down through the ages in my view . For all it's faults and inconsistencies , for all the grave crimes that have been committed in its name Christianity still provides much meaning , comfort and wisdom to its followers , whatever helps people get through their day must be worthwhile I'd say . As long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on everybody else then surely the survival of the Christian faith has to be seen as a welcome aspect of our continuing humanity .

He sure is

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/4682697.History_repeating_for_ex_Saints_boss_Poortvliet/ Is there a pattern emerging here ?

Hmmm - As The Lounge seems to have become a place where (as recently as two weeks ago) the 'powers that be' of this forum were quite happy to tolerate (encourage many might say) a serious criminal conspiracy and far right propaganda it's not a place the more upstanding members of this on-line community should probably visit .

How realistic - sure thing/50-50/1 in 4 chance ?

Ha ! - I'll jump on the coatails of the red and white Panzer division when we start are unstoppable advance and claim I predicted it all along