CanadaSaint

It seems to me that you have made a strong case for the monikers to be dropped, and thank you for doing that. What I find very troubling is that the Echo is continuing to resist the very point being made - that the use of the monikers is misleading with regard to the "weight of opinion" standing behind the people it quotes. So, if the Echo is still resisting that point when the poll demonstrates its validity, the only conclusion I can draw is that the Echo is deliberately misleading its readers. What other alternative is there? That's not only disappointing to me (because I've defended the Echo in the past). It's bloody infuriating. It's also extremely dangerous when there's a somewhat impulsive guy like Cortese in the picture, when the links to our owners are somewhat tenuous, and when those owners are unlikely to appreciate nastiness and negativity aimed in their direction.

Mike, I probably don't need to reply to your response to my suggestion that we run a poll because others have done so, and because the results of the poll speak far more clearly than I ever could. However, I should point out that it's far more than "a couple of hundred Saints fans" (it's heading for 500) and that any suggestion that they are "fairly like-minded" is somewhat laughable if you've read this forum for any length of time; just using this forum doesn't make them like-minded regarding Club affairs. (Ironically the poll results show that the only way in which they are like-minded is in asserting that they are not like-minded. ) The frustration is that, by quoting them and attaching the name of an organization, the Echo is - inadvertently or deliberately - projecting the views of certain organizations as though they are representative. That can mislead outsiders, decision-makers and even the Club's owners in an embarrassing and possibly even dangerous way. The point behind the poll was to make it crystal clear to the Echo that these views are NOT necessarily representative and should not be held out to be so - even inadvertently. In my view it has done that, and the ball is now in the Echo's court.

I have defended the Echo in the past because I've felt they were only doing their job and because I feel that the argument that "they only do it (deliberately print inaccuracies) to sell more papers" is weak. However, that viewpoint will change completely if they are now saying that they will continue to include the SISA/Saints Trust monikers even though they now know them to be completely misleading. Here’s the nub of it: So, despite my past support for them, my question to the Echo would be this: Why are you willfully misleading readers with regard to the views of everyday fans?

No. It would be much better if the Mods made this a proper poll. Guys?

Very trying.

I'm sure he strongly supports the idea of a poll to establish whether he is or isn't normal. Don't you saint_mears?

You're right, of course, docker. But my point was that this is the largest accessible grouping of Saints fans out there, so the results of the poll would still be quite compelling. Once those results land on The Echo's desk, it's not as easy for them to refer to SISA as "the voice of the fans". It's either that or stand quietly by while Chorley and Co (and others) speak for us.

Why am I not surprised that you'd support a politician with as many brain cells as she has t*ts. Or possible less.

In fairness to you and in contradiction to my groin shot, here's one of my favourite quotes (from John Maynard Keynes): "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" I still liked the earlier DPS more!

I agree, Norm, and I feel like a turd for doing it because DPS is a good guy. And I'm sure I've also done some pretty good U-turns in my time! I'm just sick and tired of all this "I don't want Adkins", "Cortese, tell us what really happened", "I want Pardew back", "I'm boycotting the club", "Cortese's a bar steward", "We don't have any money", and so on crap. But then I'm old enough to believe in Rudyard Kipling's "If". Sorry, DPS.

DPS, you should take this guy's advice:

I agree - and they will continue with this until it's made abundantly clear to the Echo and other media that SISA don't speak for anyone but themselves. When it comes to groupings of Saints fans, this forum itself is as big as they get. It might be an idea to run a poll on here ("Does SISA speak for you?") and then send the inevitable the results to A) The Echo, and B) The Club. Once The Echo has received this, it's ethically obliged to point out in future articles that SISA certainly doesn't have widespread support.

Yes, physically and mentally. I'm sure Adkins can and will address both.

What scares me is this: the two most vital qualities at playoff time are heart and fitness, and I fear we lack both. Big time.

Was that another set piece goal?

Nige is going for it - pushing forwards in on their middle two at the back.

Altogether now: We're the Saints, try and understand it Make a noise and make it clear Oh-o-o-o, whoa-o-o-o! We're not gonna sit in silence, we're not gonna live in fear Oh-o-o-o, whoa-o-o-o! Lyrics by Paul McCARTney

'cept for Charlie Wayman.

Well, I always felt that we were consistently out-coached at half time under Pardew, so here's the first real chance to see an important difference.

She's obviously sensitive about people seeing her nipple bumps.

I'm fascinated by leftback, too. Just to help the Clouseaus figure out who this might be, here's his full 11-post "body of work" (oldest to newest):

We could find out tomorrow night whether it's "can't be fit" or "can't be arsed". If we see a team that keeps up the tempo, creates space with off-the-ball running, maintains its width into the final third, doesn't resort to hoofing, and can find another gear if we're chasing the game (or chasing a win), then we might have our answer. It may well be a bit of both, along with a need to respond to timely tactical adjustments from the bench. But if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. I still think fitness is a problem.

Forget the timing. I think this, as Giordano says, makes absolute sense - all the more so for the fact that A) we seem to dominate early and lose relatively late, and B) we don't seem able to find a second gear when we need to save a game. In fact, the hoofing that seems to appear after half time may also be more a product of lacking fitness rather than tactical stupidity. If players aren't running off the ball as much and creating pass options, the only choice is to hoof. Higher fitness levels, for me, is almost priority one. Until this side gets fitter we'll continue to get turned over by teams that don't have our skill levels. And when the results of the fitness testing come out, I wouldn't be surprised to hear a few more Cortese shots at Pardew for his lacking pre-season preparation.

Well, at least he goes there to get screwed. Saints fans, on the other hand ... That was really my point.

It was indeed.