CanadaSaint

One thing we haven't talked about much is the role of club/team captain, and this is where I think we could do with someone with some decent experience of the Premier league. There were times when we lacked "an old head" last season, even when Hammond was playing, and I think it will be more costly next season unless we resolve it. I don't think it can be Kelvin - partly because he's too removed from the action, partly because he's likely to have his hands full with his GK duties, and partly because he's no certainty to start and end the season as first choice.

I despise the diving and embellishment, and I very much like the idea of retrospective punishment. The cheating needs to be eradicated from the game. But it doesn't help the cause that many of the game's top international administrators come from countries where this kind of play-acting is viewed as a necessary skill and an art. We could at least do it in the UK but then we're at an even bigger disadvantage in international (club and country) fixtures.

I fully agree with that. I'm just questioning whether Green is enough of an upgrade for us to do it with him, when there are some good, younger keepers out there who could soon develop into quality starters. I'm not sure that the Dutch guy we were looking at is off the radar screen yet - or Butland, and they'd come a hell of a lot cheaper than Green.

I don't have any concerns about Robert Green the guy, but with what his arrival could do to the carefully-woven salary structure at the Club. Nothing creates unhappy players more than feeling that they're underpaid relative to others in the room. Yes, he'd be an upgrade IMO, but I wouldn't risk the dressing room spirit that has brought us so far - and I don't think Adkins or Cortese would, either.

Despite the easy cheap shots about him, he's still a very good keeper with his best years arguably ahead of him. However, if I was going to seriously damage the Club's salary structure and risk creating dissent in a dressing room known for its harmony, I would be looking for someone who could improve us more than Robert Green. Yes, we certainly need another quality keeper but I'd prefer to see an "up-and-comer" than an expensive star.

I thought the point of a forum like this was for reasonably mature and intelligent people to discuss things in a reasonably mature and intelligent way, and have the occasional chuckle while they're doing it. No wonder it's rapidly becoming the cyber-bullying domain of a few who would rather sneer, hurl needless insults and take the "s hit e." And who actually take pride in it. It's really quite sad, given that the club we're here to discuss is on the crest of a wave and probably heading for an all-time high.

I'm pretty sure that's a No.

I offer the words of noted journalist Sydney J. Harris: A cynic is not merely one who reads bitter lessons from the past, he is one who is prematurely disappointed in the future.

I felt at the time that Kelvin had cemented his place in next year's staring line-up with his performance at Leeds. Even though I have significant reservations about him - and Premier League teams will be much better at spotting and exploiting his weaknesses - I think he probably deserves a shot. However, if we go into this season with Bart as his only real back-up we're taking a massive and potentially fatal risk. For me it's a top priority to sign a quality keeper who's more than capable of starting ahead of Kelvin. Things went quiet on that Dutch guy but I suspect he's still under consideration.

Don't misrepresent what I said to justify your own viewpoint. I said that Arsenal are doing it the right way, just as we will. I didn't say we'd hit the same heights but that we'd follow a similar path. Who knows where it will take us? But I'm optimistic, you're deeply sceptical to the point of being cynical. That sums up the thread, really.

No argument here with the point that they will always be better off than us financially, but I wouldn't overestimate how much their "massive global fan base" actually generates for them. Many of them never spend a penny that actually ends up in the big clubs' bank accounts. And they can't sign all the best youngsters, can they? If anyone has proved that point over a number of years, it's us. And, as stev2001 said in the post right below yours, Arsenal are doing it the right way - just as we will.

Many of the cynics' arguments are based on their belief that we will be completely unable to close the financial gap between ourselves and the big clubs, which ordinarily might be true. That's now not a one-way journey, though. Just as we will be working to build our financial and fan base, so the big clubs will be coming back towards us as the financial fair play regulations come into effect. They will change the whole ball game if they can be implemented effectively, and the greatest single assets in that kind of world - as many have identified - will be fiscal responsibility and a top flight academy. With our catchment area, our academy and the people we have at the top, I'd say we're very well-placed to grow more than most.

Absolutely.

The term which I "(spouted) like some higher learning" (the "You do realize" part) was a direct quote from you! And the irony is that you couldn't even see yourself in it, CB. Ever read Robbie Burns? And No, my point couldn't be applied to most of the clubs you mentioned because they are surrounded by far more nearby competition than we are.

So you dismiss an argument as "bol loc ks" and then cite Man U fans in Guildford as your supporting rationale? And then you dismiss the next argument, by another poster, with more references to Man U fans. "You do realize that" the vast majority of people in our large catchment area don't support Man U, and aren't that committed to any club, don't you? They could be, though, and that gives us a major potential advantage over clubs of supposedly-similar size, which was the point of my post. Will it get us into the CL? I don't know, but at least I'm willing to look up rather than down.

There's one element of "golden opportunity" (because that's what I think we have) that invalidates a lot of the comparisons with clubs of our size - and therefore invalidates the suggestion that our potential is really limited to what the best of them have achieved in recent years. It's our catchment area. Most (if not all) of the so-called comparable clubs are surrounded by nearby competition. With no disrespect intended to Pompey, Bournemouth and even Brighton (honestly!), we are not. Our potential catchment area is one of the best in the country. This means that our 32,000 capacity could quite easily be viably expanded to 40,000 or even 50,000 - if Cortese is able to keep growing the core of the club, including the academy, the way he has. That growth won't happen overnight but gradually, in a planned fashion, and the potential is there to far exceed what some of the quoted comparable clubs have been able to achieve, so I'm damned if my dreams are going to be limited by their negligible success. And that supports the point that Phil is making above - "PLANNING to develop OVER TIME an Income structure that allows you to be Sustainable AND still allow you to pay "Competitive" salaries."

I thought Robinson was going to be an excellent keeper when he was younger but he's never really seemed to reach his potential. I think one of his problems is his weight, which - funnily enough - is a good reason for us to think seriously about signing him. With our fitness and nutrition programmes, he could be our keeper for the next five years. He's three years younger than Kelvin.

Using a nautical analogy for delldays, every time I've seen him he's had the anticipation, acceleration and turning circle of the Queen Mary - the first one. That's Zat Knight, not delldays. Not for me, thanks. Given Knight's 'skill' when in possession, though, BFS might be interested.

Yep, and hopefully Nicola will arrange for him to be wearing a nice watch - like the one Markus didn't buy for himself.

http://videocelts.com/2012/04/blogs/loan-celts/celtic-land-hooiveld-premiership-bonus?

I've put it on the Markus thread.

At the suggestion of Suhari, on the Cortese thread, I think now is a good time and here is a good place for this - the comments made by David Bick at Markus’s memorial service:

I've never really rated him and never really not rated him, but I thought Corky was excellent today. Every time we've put together one of those 24-pass moves, and I've gone back to watch it again, I've usually seen something I missed at the time - that Cork made 4 or 5 of the passes. Nothing spectacular, just very neat and efficient. And he put in a couple of very decent final balls today as well.

He's probably somewhere right now, buying a couple of Swiss watches - one for himself and one for Markus. Brilliant job. Now he's up with the big boys, and I don't think he's going to be out of place at all.

Were any of the family there today?