up and away

Wouldn't call a 20 goal a season man a luxury we can't afford, even if most of his goals are scored in the six yard box. With Saga able to score from seemingly anywhere, I think we'd have a good mix. Can't agree on John either. Seems to have lost his form terribly this season. 3 goals is it, and he's no spring chicken. Seems to be reliant on Saganowski being on the pitch to score for some reason. Very difficult one to balance and very early to give a definitive, but I think the nod should go to Euell on the following provisos. Either Euell is scoring regularly or he brings in the other players with assists. Raisaks goals with Saints came at the cost of an open style of play, requiring the support of several other players. His record when teams set up defensively against us was poor with the majority of his goals coming away or when the game was open. The way Euell is playing now is your typical CCC forward which everyone needs to be effective in this league, hustle, bustle and challenges and an asset defensively. I am not sure about Rasiak and Saga complementing each other and feel that Saga would best benefit from Euell from the limited games so far. Saga has stated the influence Euell is having on the team and him personally, so I am not so sure about Rasiak being the better compliment? Very happy to leave this one to the manager, as my choice would have been John, given the option.

You do talk some ******. The prime reason we are STILL using so many youth players is because of our financial situation. The reason why we were trying to force players out was because of our financial position. The reason we were not using all the senior players when available was because of the bonuses, which again is because of our financial position. Just in case you believe we have abandoned our youth, just look through the comments from the Ipswich fans from last nights game. Words of praise from the Tractorboys... Poortvliet would have used Size, happy enough to try Svennson when available. happy enough to use Stern John when available and if he had the nous to try Euell at centre forward would more than likely have ben happy to use him there. The passing and interchange between the young players is still very similar to Poortvliet, but with a noticeable difference from Size and Euell at centre forward, such that the whole balance is that much better. The other reason we have not been investing in experienced pro's is what we can actually get for our money. We are in competition with League 1 clubs for players and sometimes not even up to that standard. You will have seen references in the past, to not bringing in players that are not already better, than the youngsters we all ready have (or soon to be). In reality we have got lucky with Size and that's about it, the rest are just the expensive pro's no one else wanted from our squad which we now have the luxury of using (thank goodness). You are so desperate to avoid any possible credit being linked back to Lowe that you come up with these charades. There has been one prime aim this season, to overcome our financial issues and try and stay in this division. For obvious reasons Lowe has sold this as a positive step, but in reality there was no other practical choice. Lowe stated clearly at the beginning of the season that we had lost too much from our youth squad and we must use them or continue to lose them. Happily we seem to have found the right balance for the moment, whilst satisfying that criteria. Some like yourself believe we have the financial flexibility to decide our own fate with how many senior pro's we retain and others we bring in. I don't see that from all the comments and financial mess we are in. We have a very tenuous link of faith with the bank at present, try and force that direction and they can easily say "off you go and do what you want, but not with our money".

Early on he was being'frozen out' then he got injured & suspened & now he's back As you say a combination of many factors. Injury, suspension plus he was not up for it. Throw in Lowe was trying desperately to get people off the wage bill and the question of bonuses. I get the feeling that they may have come to an agreement over these bonuses. As far as I know the salary figures given in the Echo for all our high earners is correct but missing a sizeable amount from the bonuses. Fair play to Wotte for making this non acadamic by playing him up front. Thinking back these bonuses would have explained some of the strange decisions with players under Burley.

I believe in addition to the good performances from all the other player, the balance given to the side from Size, Gillet and Euell has been a turnaround. Others may have put in better performances, but I have seen that before without us getting the rewards.

I have a tenuous grasp? is this English for the terminally thick? I have repeatedly stated to yourself that "All we have had is a change of manager with a different style." and "There is a different style between Poortvliet and Wotte, but they are still using the same left overs from the expensive senior pro's." Poortvliet would happily have continued with Stern John if he was available and the only real difference between Poortvliet and Wotte in regards to the senior players, is one extra senior player in Euell. Something we must all give Wotte credit for in using Euell in a position he has been extremely useful. If Wotton had been useful, Euell not injured or better in midfield, Svennson not injured and John available long term, we would all have seen a lot more of them under Poortvliet. If someone had come in for Saga or Euell they would not be here now and we would have to rely on what was left over. There is just one plan here, to halt the financial slide into oblivion and utilise the remaining assets to the best effect. Our future is heavily dependent upon the youth players as without them developing we have next to no chance emerging from this in the long term. This is just not about this season but many more to come to get out of this mess.

I presume no one has yet got round to mentioning this to Wotte then!!!! Poortvliet used senior players available to him and so has Wotte, there is no difference from that aspect. Lowe was trying to move on players and also limit the cost from playing bonuses so that impacted upon Poortvliets selection. Saga was given free reign to find another club but he could not, so ends up staying here. I would imagine the use of Skacel previously was down to forgoing the playing bonuses as with the rest of those on high salaries at the present, or we have found another way to fund them. There is a different style between Poortvliet and Wotte, but they are still using the same left overs from the expensive senior pro's. The big problem we have is being able to sign any decent senior pro because we cannot afford a fee or salary. All the senior pro's we have signed are League 1 material. Looks like we have got lucky with Size, but he was definitely in that category when we signed him. Lloyd James is starting to look like the classic example of why we are forced to go with the youth. Keep progressing as he is and he will far exceed our expectations of what we can reasonably get in the transfer market. Some of these developing youth players will have to be sold to bridge the financial abyss but that is the mess we are in.

There was and still is no way out but the youth for a few years to come. You may be extremely lucky and pick up an old pro that you can sell on at a profit to keep trading, but it is very rare. Once we were locked into the youth by the financial constraints, Lowe has had to sell this to the bank and the whole club to try make it work. Lowe looked at going Dutch a few years ago but decided against it. This time the financial limitations must have made it look far more attractive. And the restrictions placed upon us by the bank have meant that players have moved on or hand their contracts cancelled by mutual consent. But if a player is not prepared to cancel his contract, do you keep paying him and allow him to leave? Where is the logic in that. Recently Euell wanted to play in the States and could have gone like Viafara, but he wanted to keep his cake and eat it. If we had any offers for these players they would have gone, we did not take their names off the transfer list, the lack of interest from other teams is what kept them here. It is one thing saying to the bank that circumstances have forced us into this position irrespective of our best efforts, than trying to tell them we are deliberately going down this road. The only improvement I can see in our financial position will be if the low interest rates have managed to have an impact? What happens if Rasiak comes back I do not know and it would not surprise me if Watford are not paying all of his salary.

The basic concept of financial management still stands. Poortvliet was happy enough to use Stern John when he was available and believed to be staying. Then take into account when Poortvliet started off there was greater pressure on the wage bill than what exists now with Wotte. There is a difference with Wotte, but he will have to manage under the financial limitations we have at this time and this is going to involve the youth for a good time to come. If Saga's contract ended tomorrow, there is no way the bank would countenance a repeat of that salary. If you want to increase your wage bill deliberately the bank can easily say NO and pull the plug. But if the bank believe you are doing everything possible to minimise any increase in the wage bill, but get saddled with additional costs by little fault of your own, this can be viewed more tolerably within certain limits. It is all about the bank having limited faith in the club, break that string of cotton and they can easily call it a day over what could be seen as a minor issue in this climate. We no longer have any cast iron guarantees from the bank to stick by us because we have already exceeded the limits they are happy to work within. Unless we have found additional capital from some where, I still doubt the banks support will extend much further although the lower interest rates MAY be helpful. Who and how we funded Schniederlin I do not know, but his wages don't come close to Saga who's basic was given as £8K per week recently. The financial constraints and failure to move on high wages and gain fees for players has meant our actions have been dictated by the bank, we have had very limited room for manoeuvre. Our revenues have been declining markedly since we got relegated.

There has been one driving force this season, our financial plight. Jan Poortvliet clearly stated at the beginning of the season that all the high earners were up for sale or would be moved on if someone else would be prepared to pay their wages. He also stated that he thought it was best to prepare his team around those players he expected he would be left with, subsequently adding in those that we failed to move on. This was not some radical experiment, but having to face up to the financial mess we were in and try and implement a practical plan to get us out of this. This was not about one season but several to come, with the developing youth players providing the financial bridge. The fact that Wotte has come in and used senior players that are now fit / available is no change. If we had had offers for those players they would now be gone and Wotte would have to manage with what remains. All we have had is a change of manager with a different style. Lowe has been trying to move players on that we cannot afford and restricting what outgoings we occur by playing bonuses being paid to the more expensive pro’s. This is being portrayed as manipulating the team selection, but again the driving force for all of this is the financial mess we are in. Some believe we have a major choice in the direction we go and could readily decide not to sell any players, that is ludicrous. Because of our debt, our direction has to be in compliance with the bank. If we decided to go on our own the bank will simply not follow and there is absolutely no way we can do that. You can point out that in selling these players it will readily lead to League 1 (which is a distinctly possible). But you need to understand that if you choose that route against the banks wishes, they can readily pull the plug there and then. So you would never be allowed to progress down that route anyway. MLT has echoed these points along with Richards in the Echo recently. And if the bank asks us to jump through any other hoops, it will just be a question of which ones and how high.

He was putting in better performances at the beginning of the season then just burnt himself out, I just hope it's not going to happen again. I am a firm believer in sticking with a winning team but thought I saw signs with a few of the players running out of steam. Just hope the manager makes the correct decisions and takes everything into account.

There is absolutely no doubt to me why we are winning games. It is down to the added contributions of Euell in attack, Gillet in midfield and Size in defence. If you scrutinise the individual performances of Euell and Gillet there is a lot you can pick fault with, but without their performances the whole thing falls apart. This is not to overlook many other players who many can say put in better individual performances, but the blend of the team is now such that things are far more effective. One thing that concerns is that some of the younger players seemed to be losing their edge as the game wore on, I just hope the manager takes this into account for the amount of games we have in the near future. I am concerned especially by Gillet disappearing, as he has done previously when he seems to burn himself out in repeated fixtures.

Difference is some of us are just are glad to be wrong whilst some of us are just glad to be smug pr1cks... You do the maths... English your second language or some honesty for a change?

It would be a nice idea (cost permitting) to completely cover the bare walls in the concourses with large murals, even a complete concourse for MLT alone.

There were several points from the Preston game that need remembering. The individual effect of Euell at Centre forward was not that special, but overall that effect was immense. Similarly the effect of Gillet in midfield was overall impressive, though not individually. What concerns is the availability of Schneiderlin and who would then subsequently be dropped? Schniederlin is a good player but i do not feel the balance of midfield would be as great if we dropped Gillet? Difficult one for the manager and I hope he gets it correct!

The trust can never be all things to all people, such is the myriad of views within the fan base. What the trust can do well is promote ideas where the majority of the fan base are behind. Recently I believe they have attempted that and although there looks like no easy answer, I do believe they are on the correct lines. The idea of trying to secure the stadium for the future is a very good one, although trying to get the council to fund that looks doomed in this current climate. But it is something that is desperately required to be done. If we lose the stadium, all our worst nightmares would probably come true. Everyone has their opinion about who should be running the club, from one to none. In practical reality we have just got to get on with any combination of Crouch, Wilde or Lowe, because there is no one else out there prepared to invest. It would be far better if we had all 3 working together. I do not like the idea of a fan on the board, just exactly where has that got us except further in the financial mire. I don't like the idea of an independent chairman, far prefer if they got together and selected one from the 3 and let him get on with it within the limits set out before hand. Sometimes it can be more effective when you have something being driven single mindedly in one direction (even when the direction is not perfect), rather than driven by consensus and committee (give a committee the remit to design a horse and they probably end up with a camel scenario). It would not worry which of them did it as long as we work within a plan that makes sense financially. For once the trust is doing the right thing, maybe not totally perfect but something within practical bounds that makes sense and the majority of the fans can get behind. If we do not come together as a fan base things will only get worse and I really believe the trust can do something by working on ideas that bring us all together. After the euphoria of the Preston game had settled down, I have seriously considered giving football a rest for a season or two, irrespective of who is in the board room or whether we avoid relegation and administration. I do like the direction the trust is going in of late and is the only thing that gives me some hope for the future.

What is this? analysis for dummies or those with the retention span of a fruit fly? We already know all of this from Barcelona Saint's posts, but suddenly this all gets forgotten and here we go again "Oh look, a sunken castle". Just like the appointment of the two Dutchmen was a done deal years previously, one even quitting his then position he was so sure? Lowe changed his mind then, so obviously could never do it again within a 5 year span? Pearson's value only reached credible levels following the last game of the season, but you believe nothing should have been done prior in case a change was needed? brilliant! I don't know if Pearson had a chance of retaining the job, but equally neither do you. But several, including myself viewed Pearson as exactly the type of manager Lowe would be interested in. As for Poortvliet being cheaper than Pearson, are you saying this is a lie? It never has been claimed that money was the deciding issue, something Wilde has pointed out. Both Lowe and Wilde would have come to this decision and I would have imagined it must have been difficult for both of them when the decision had to be made. Lowe had clearly demonstrated in the past with the possible reappointment of Hoddle, that personal feelings did not cloud the decision to be made. Equally when Lowe and Wilde returned there has been no recriminations, no vendetta but a clear and deliberate absence of such. One thing I would venture, if Crouch had combined with Lowe and Wilde and being prepared to give modest financial assistance, there is a very good chance Pearson would still be there. But as we saw previously where all Crouch had to do was give the slightest of acknowledgements towards Wilde, Lowe would never have been in a position to return. You will always have the stench of bllsht in your nostrils, but that is more a question of personal hygiene than anything else.

I believe it is a lot simpler than that. If we found someone that was prepared to pay Saga's or Euell's salary, the bank would have insisted upon it. There appears little choice in this, just the fact we can use them because no one else wants them. The bank can pull the plug on us at any time, such is the state of our finances. This is not a last throw of the die, unless we have found someone to put some money in. This is the bank accepting things at present, under the proviso that we are doing everything possible to address the problems. Try going your own way without finance and you are on your own.

When were these things said then Um.If it is current about him and Wotte now it will be of great surprise. My info from the dressing room is very positve, as you know as I have been relaying that for a few games. I would have thought this one was easy enough to work out. We have only received fees for two players? (Safri and Davies) and all the rest have been let go on a free to get them off the books. If Euell could have found a club, I am sure that would have been extended to him. The problem will be that Euell wanted to be paid / paid up so he can still get the high salary we are paying, something he is not going to get near in the future. So Lowe was not prepared to pay him up to play for someone else, as he may be some use along the line, boo hoo

The turnout was definitely down on last time, but still a good number. If fans feel they have to protest, this seems to be a reasonably good format. There does not seem to be that great a carry over into the stadium and it allows fans can get their message across without seriously impacting on the players. The condemnation of Wotte seems a little premature and stupid, but other than that perfectly acceptable. What happened at the Doncaster game was unacceptable, but well done to those participating in not allowing that repeat.

He's just not fit and has played how many minutes this season? He was a good player for us and I expect him to be once again when fit. But we definitely dodged a bullet when we managed to offload him to Stoke, even with getting Pulis jnr in return. I was wondering if we had not managed to offload him how much more trouble we would have been financially? Would we have been even able to afford what little we have now?

Completely agree about Saga and Euell, switch the positions around and I don't think it would be as effective.

I'll tell you why i'm offended Frank, because they had my money last March for this season. What did that buy me, cheaper games than buying on the day, nothing else. I supported the team last season and continued to support this season, and i will continue to turn up and support the players.What i don't want is some numpty to accuse me of wanting the team to fail just to justify the fact that before the match , i'm protesting. The man should be concentrating on his job and put out a team to beat P.N.E, not worrying about what i'm doing before a match. T*sser. The trouble is, any money paid last march was long gone and we are just bumbling along on the debt. Poortvliet got even worse treatment even though he was a nice guy, so Wotte laying it out as it is should hardly comes as a surprise. You don't even need to be here 2 seconds to work out that if Saints supporters are booing the players, it's not going to help the team one bit. Matt Le Tiss knows what is going on and realises our best way out of this mess is to get behind the team, others do not and want to boo irrespective. We all know there are those that want the current regime to fail, we have all seen it clearly stated on here, so why the ****** about Wotte when you clearly know it is true? We have so many thwats totally silent when we were spending our way into this mess, now suddenly finding their voice when the consequences of this financial disater hits home.

If only Crouch, Lawrie and Pearson were still running the show we wouldn't be in this position. One of the main reasons we are on this position is because of Crouch. Take away all that multitude of players Pearson had available and replace them with League 1 fodder, there is no way you can predict anything that would guarantee safety.

This is a two edged sword. I know of two season ticket holders who will not be renewing this season, neither who could be classed as Lowe fans. Their biggest issue is with other fans giving the players stick and the disagreements that follow. It is a difficult position, but having to take what is served up on the pitch and fan disunity can lead to an atmosphere that several are not prepared to take. I thought what happened with the protest march was good, people could get their view across without things being seriously affected on the pitch. If there is no common bond between the supporters, with many not wanting to be in the same stadium as some of their fellow fans, our numbers will only diminish further, irrespective of who is the chairman.

Never said anything of the kind, apart from cannot see us avoiding administration because of the financial mess we were in. Just because I can see some sense in the financial measures been put in place, has not stopped me believing and stating it would be a miracle if we got out of this mess. All the damage was done before Lowe got back and any one with half a light on could see we were ****ed from the get go. Unless you were still had both thumbs stuck up your arse waiting for Fulthorpe.