S-Clarke

exactly, like I said above it's got a whiff of Gray/Wigley and Wotte and Poortvliet to me. I hope I'm wrong but it all feels a total cluster f.

This is what we're about to find out I guess! Like someone else mentioned though, he doesn't have much support around him, apart from Carl Martin the former U18 coach. If we do decide to stick then he will need to be supported by experienced coaches, but it all feels a bit Wotte and Poortvliet to me if I'm honest.

I think the summer undermined Ralph a little bit, there was clearly some chatter about what direction to take and they decided to overhaul the coaching instead. There were also some 'ITK' comments from people which suggested he was walking the plank at the start of the season as he needed to improve dramatically etc, so he was a deadman walking from the summer really and I think he knew that and ditto the players, so it was a really odd scenario from the start. Given how rapidly we moved for Jones after he was sacked is suggestive to me that the wheels had been in the motion for some time before the Newcastle game, it's no wonder it's all gone to shit. I think SR (particularly Rasmus) have shown Ralph an enormous lack of respect.

The general theme coming out via all the club leaks (Jeremy Wilson/Jacob Tanswell etc) are that he's well liked and respected by the players, but if that's the case you have to wonder why they've not really listened to him a great deal this year. (if what he's telling them is actually working). When we grabbed him in the summer there were a few things dotted around on him, weirdly there was a thread on the FC Kobenhaven version of SaintsWeb and they were lauding him for overhauling their defensive solidity. Can't say I've seen much evidence of that here yet, but then we dont know how much input he has been allowed to have.

Dragging it out for 6 months for no reason at all, and then replacing him with a mad man. Disgusting is probably a polite way of putting it.

Shall we just have one great big 'high school reunion' for all our former players and managers or something? It seems that's all some people want, or is at least the only criteria they look at when deciding if they want a player or manager.

I don't think it's as black and white as that, as other's have said above I think there are other implications given his recent sacking and Leeds payoffs etc. I believe he was more than prepared to take a short-term deal, given he verbally agreed and travelled here to stay overnight. Today was the day the finer contract details and the discussion of the Leeds payoff would have been brought up, and I reckon that's become a big sticking point - the details of which were probably not entirely clear until they sat down in front of him and his agent to work out the financials.

He's already wandering around observing our training sessions, so don't speak too soon!

If he was like mid to late 30's then yeah, maybe an idea (still a crazy one mind!) but as of now he's still only 28 years old and in the prime of his career. He needs to be focusing on playing football, not managing a premier league team.

Maybe if these players had sorted their own shit out then we wouldn't be having these chats and they'd still be playing for Ralph. I don't believe the level of detail in terms of the players vetoing this by the way, but I don't think they are in any position to dictate who or what they want. They're a major part of the reason we're in this shit.

It's ridiculous that it's got to that stage, but it wouldn't be a bad shout. It won't happen though, that ship sailed and you never go back. But how we managed that separation was disgusting.

Who do you think could give us that stability? I'm at a loss to be honest! I don't think the names of Gerrard, Lampard or Rooney offer much credibility. The only one with an ounce of sense is possibly Lampard, but that's scraping the barrel really. We weren't very attractive before, but now the club have inadvertently told everyone they're only offering a short-term deal then our options are probably even less than they were. Nothing wrong with short-term deals by the way, but to have all this leaked out as the 'stopper' for Marsch is incredibly damaging going forward.

It has been a bit confused, I agree. You are right in when Crocker came in there was a philosophy to no longer loan out our best young players, as we felt they'd be better served being coached by 'us' rather than in a different style. That lasted all of 6 months I think before we started throwing players out on loan again. I never saw the sense of blocking loans because players only develop through playing, not what they do in the training ground and kids football. If they're good enough to come straight in then that's great, but they're very rare situations and you probably get a handful every 20 years of that scenario. What Henrik said in the forum was quite telling - it was mentioned that the strategy in the window was to buy young to fill the gap between 19-21 year olds, and he said....''as we're not very good in those age groups'' - he might be true in saying that, but it doesn't exactly throw up much hope of any sort of pathway for the younger lads.

Left field shout, as it has been mentioned that the club are looking at an experienced 'coach' to come in and work with Selles in a duo. Rui Faira? Jose's former assistant, been everywhere with him, huge pedigree in coaching some of the best players in the world. Has said he left Jose as he wanted to go into management. Had a year in Duabi but has been out of work since.

Well the club have put him in that position! I agree with you, he's not a manager...but I don't as of now see any viable options which work for us. We've fucked up more than you could ever imagine. If we could go back 4 months I would do it tomorrow.

We played the Ralph situation like morons. This is a guy who'd given 4 years to the club, built up a philosophy and a style of play. It went stale, no one can deny that - it went stale last year. The optimum time for change was at the end of last season, and maybe even give him the opportunity to help appoint his successor. To then go into the season with someone you've kind of half backed kind of makes it inevitable. He was never Rasmus's man and he was desperate to get his own man in. So to then sack Ralph, 6 months too late, and replace him with Jones who is a totally different type of manager is just disgraceful management. It shows whoever made that call has no real understanding of what Ralph had built over 4 years or any real respect in it, his legacy has been pretty much trashed in 3 months and I feel pretty bad for that.

Personally I think we've made our bed with Selles now and that's where we're going, we'll re-asses in the summer. I don't see anyone 'realistic' out there who is a good fit for what we have, Marsch was the best of what I'd call a bad bunch really.

Are people actually suggesting Allardyce?? This is where you have to look at the squad we have and what sort of person is a good fit. Marsch was a good fit. Benitez and Allardyce are not good fits for the players we have. Selles is a better fit than him because he already knows who is here.

Leeds looked at him, but he has a £6m buy out in his contract at that Saudi club. Non-starter.

It's all speculation at this point, but I personally didn't see the problem of a 6 month deal with numerous options in the summer - there are ways to build a deal like that by not seeming disrespectful. I think there is something else that has moved the goal posts here, whether that's him willing to give up a pay off at Leeds or us unwilling to cover that cost - no idea, but I think something else has gone down in addition to the 'short term' chatter we see. The 'verbal' agreement would have been on the understanding that it was a short term deal, today was the finer trimmings of any contract and that's where it's fallen down. But basically, as you've said, it's an absolute cluster fuck because we've come out of this with our dirty laundry plastered all over the media - again.

I just want to feel some hope, hope in the short-term and hope long-term that they know what they're doing. I have neither right now. Selles isn't a bad bloke, but he's not going to give us the hope we all need. And everyone needs hope in football. You usually see these sorts of things happen at badly run clubs and laugh at them, but I have to say that we are sadly now an incredibly badly run club. No getting away from it. Facts are all in front of us. Ankerson came with huge reputation but he has created an almighty mess here. Over his head comes to mind.

I don't know what is with peoples obsession over Potter, he will not be coming here. He's not leaving a team like Chelsea to take over a Championship club, or walk into a relegation battle for 3 months. It's a non-starter. I want to have confidence that there is a view that there are better on the horizon who they wish to wait for, however based on everything that has gone before I'm seriously losing any confidence in anything they do. Feels like they're swimming against the tide on everything.

At the end of the day he's not Jones, so that's an immediate win. But....he has been involved in our worst ever PL season at every stage, so he cannot be excluded from any blame in terms of how it's gone so far. Obviously as a coach he wouldn't have had full autonomy, so it'll be interesting if he's going to make any drastic changes now he can.

They have undoubtably made a total pigs ear of this season, their first in charge. Everything they have touched has gone to shit so far. I do appreciate the reasoning behind a short-term contract for Marsch, but the situation we find ourselves in now all stems back to the November horror show appointment. The club PR machine will be in overdrive to make us feel as if this has been their plan all along, Selles is well respected, they feel he is a viable option etc etc, but in reality if they did this right in November then we wouldn’t be hearing those things.

Well that's odd, I assumed this was all done. The short-term thing makes more sense to us, than to him - maybe. But I can see why we were keen on a short-term deal from our side. We've created this shit storm by getting it all wrong in the summer and then November. Now we're somewhat paddling against the tide.