S-Clarke

That wasn't a bad game at all. First half wasn't half as bad as some made it out to be on here, I thought we had reasonable control and just lacking a touch of quality. Second half the subs worked in our favour though, obviously we were stronger from the bench at it showed. Armstrong and Aribo made huge contributions in our attacking game when they came on. Diallo was the best CM out there tonight, went about it quietly but was pretty effective. Adam Armstrong was very lively though, he does have a habit of running into players and blind allies but he was still effective for large portions of that game. As with any pre-season game though, hard to read too much into it due to the way all the subs change the games up, but I particularly enjoyed the contribution of Aribo when he came on and the performance of Armstrong with a partner alongside him. Adams took some of the physical demands off of him, as he could run into space more freely.

I'm keen to see how Armstrong does with Adams alongside him, he was way too isolated on his own. The support play from Ely and Redmond needs to be good though. It's not a 'bad' team and it's clearly second string in the main, but it does show that there is still work to do in the attack and full back area's specifically. Didn't expect to see Perraud back, so that's a plus.

Really, really good post and I'm glad I'm not alone in my thoughts. I kind of see us as starting from a zero base and having to build ourselves back up again, because we've been on somewhat of a downward spiral since Gao took over. If the approach we are adopting is correct, time will tell on that, then we will lift ourselves back up the league and thus open the market to more 'named' players in future windows, and maybe the more 'sought' after young players that we can't obtain at the moment. I think the approach we are taking requires patience from everyone, it's not an overnight thing and the signings we're making this window aren't going to make us a top 6 team tomorrow, but it's a case of taking the steps in the right direction and building that base to grow from.

If I remember rightly, we had this same debate last pre-season. Moussa rocked up in pre-season at left back, Ralph saying he see's him as an option etc, but he never really played there when the games were actually on. Given how shit we are in attack, it's quite telling that we're putting one of those attackers at wing back. He does need to go and like you I think the club have openly put his name out there. I hope we don't expect £15m back, £5m tops I reckon.

To be fair, I remember the biggest amount of vitrol coming after a cup game away at Sheffield United (i think?), which was in November time that year.

Rory struggled because of the fee, for us back in those days £4m was a hell of a lot of money and straight away the pressure was on him. He wasn't a superstar and he didn't rip up any tree's, but he wasn't Wotton levels of terrible. Because he cost so much back then I think some were expecting a refined superstar, so he always had that monkey on his back. That's why i agree with a post further up re: the fee on such a young player. If we saddle his 19 year old son with our record transfer fee then that's heaping so much pressure onto him before he's even developed, and we all know how impatient fans are as they expect instant returns. (Pelle was given 2 games before he was booed for example). With our model we'll never get instant returns though, not when we're signing 18/19 year old kids.

Martin confirmed our club mantra last year, it's not amazing as like you say we'll never create stability or long-term success with the same group. But I've come to accept it to be honest. If we get to see some superstar young players and enjoy those for a year or 2 then that's better than having to limp along with rubbish. Martin Semmens said ''For us, it's not about points or where we finish, it's about how we develop players and provide them the platform''. Obviously staying in the PL is key to that and I think we'll always be competitive enough to achieve that (I hope), but I don't see us developing a WHU/Leicester type team that stays together for a few years and has consistent finishes in the league. It doesn't seem as if that's the priority for the club.

Probably the same with Broja, he was another who was able to create something out of nothing through his pace/power, he often looked frustrated as he made runs with no one able to find him. Aribo looks decent, he seems to be a clever player in that '10' role who can drift around. He's so much more physical than I thought he was, which should offer us something in those areas we didn't have last year. I'd like us to give up on the Moussa/Ely/Redmond/Theo experiments though and go all out for someone like Karlson.

I don't disagree, with 'forwards' I was including the attack in that. I think we'll get another wide number 10 type and another striker before the window is done. As we saw with Broja though, it's not all down to the players creating behind him (although that is desperately needed), but the strikers need to have a bit more about them in order to make their own movement, create their own opportunities. Outside of Adams we have zilch. And Adams...who let's face it...provides physicality and is our best option, he is still very average as a finisher. I can see Mara, a number 9 type, another AM and a RB cover (that aligns with a few ITK posts), although we will probably need to ship out one of Elyounoussi, Redmond or Moussa for that additional AM.

Wasn't he sidelined for quite a few weeks with a meniscus injury? I don't remember him playing with an injury. You can't blame an ACL due to overplaying or being run into the ground, they are freak injuries which can happen to anyone at anytime if you twist wrong when you fall.

As long as we get the attacking players in we need, he'll have no excuses. As you did say he is in line to be backed more than any other manager in recent years. I've always stood by my view that we need to back him and allow him to bring in players who suit the style he wants to play, so let's see how we go. I think we're still massively let down by the lack of quality in the attack, but I like the options we have to play with at the back and in CM now - the sort of players who are right up his street in the style of play. But the attacking signings will make or break our season, as it doesn't really matter what tactics he plays if we have crap up top. I'm expecting some improvement this season once we've got all our targets in, but I'm not expecting a total 360 and us becoming top 6 challenges. This team will evolve over a couple of seasons and then we'll see where we sit.

You made the ''3 at the back FFS'' point on another thread, and The Cat countered your argument with several good points as to why 3 at the back is being used as an option at the moment. What would your alternative be, if we don't actually have a new full back in place for the start? It is a bit ridiculous that our two full backs we bought last season are both injured, not the fault of anyone though.

The massive difference with Livramento is that he was a fairly cheap punt, at £5m. We also didn't run the risk of him needing to hit the ground running from day 1, as we already had KWP to play that role. Fair enough, he did come in and play from the start but as we had KWP already there, moving him out for a period (or losing him to injury) wasn't as big a problem.

They've rejected that bid though (supposedly), so we'd have to go even higher with the guaranteed fee and any deal would be north of £30m, which is ridiculous money for a player who has never played mens football, let's be honest. If we've got north of £30m to spend on a striker, let's go and get someone who has scored goals in a professional league and is able to hit the ground running. a £30m+ deal on a player who is a 'development' project is crazy for us, given that we have no one to get the goals today.

This is true, if City loan him they'll have one eye on what they could get out of it too. If they agree to a £20m fee on the loan, and he bangs in 20 goals for us then they've totally short changed themselves. So I can't see them agreeing to a set fee. If we get him on loan and he does fairly well, we'll have exactly the same situation as Broja. 'Newcastle want Delap' ''Man City want to asses Delap over pre-season'' etc etc.

It's hard to read much into pre-season to be honest, but it was a bit of a half arsed press if anything. Not much thrust going forward, but when is there ever any thrust going forward with the current crop. Aribo looks like he can add something different though, a bit of physicality and power on the ball. Adam Armstrong, Elyounoussi, Moussa etc, feels like we're continuously flogging 3 dead horses.

That one was a loan with an obligation to a perminant transfer, you couldn't get out of that. I believe it was done that way to offset the transfer fee so it was covered in the next window rather than the current one. We could do the same with Delap, but if he flops then we still have to pay it. A more 'open' loan offers the opportunity for both the player other clubs to have a sniff, it keeps the door open with regards to commitment. I think we've had our arses bitten with Toby and Broja, so if we see Delap as a similar prospect to Broja then we're trying to tie him to us rather than 'borrow' him and face the risk of a season of speculation if he does well.

Bazunu does seem to ooze class, just gives himself more time on the ball when it looks like he doesn't have it. For a GK that's quite weird to see, reminds me of Ederson and Alison, that modern type of high press/sweeper keeper. Feels like a bit of a missing piece in the jigsaw. Aribo will add a lot of physicality to us in my opinion. Bella-Kotchap continues to impress me, the guy is a monster. I like how we've added strength and power through the first part of the spine. Lavia hasn't been bad, but a little more rusty today and has been caught a little too much. It's obvious where our problems lie though, and the solution is certainly never going to be Adam Armstrong. The change in our game since Adam Armstrong went off was telling. He's clearly not good enough as a central striker, equally he struggles as part of a 2 as well. I think we need to give up and loan him out with an option to buy. I'd argue Elyonoussi isn't the solution either, way too weak on the ball and too slow. Not sure why there is chatter about a new contract.

These threads are really hard before the season has started and the window has closed, so we can all have a laugh when we look back at our predictions in a few months! I fancy Man City winning the league, quite comfortably this time. Liverpool to drop to 3rd or 4th. I think losing Mane will hit them more than they realise, they'll lose a lot of their fluidity in their attack and Nunez will require them to play totally differently. Man Utd will be Man Utd, they have so much shit and haven't done anything in the market to fix that. Ten Haag isn't going to make McTominay the next Pirlo or Fred the next Scholes, so until they get better players in their team they'll never really be in contention for the top 4. The ownership probably don't appreciate that though, so they'll probably pull the trigger on Ten Haag because a few players will go crying to the board because of his harsh treatment. Bottom 3, as it stands, Fulham, Bournemouth, Everton. I think Fulham are your typical yo-yo team, too good for the champ but ultimately a little short on quality for the PL. Bournemouth are just not good enough at all, they need to do a hell of a lot of work to be competitive. Everton could be real entertainment this year, I can see Dyche rocking up there in January or something. The place is in a mess, the squad is lacking quality and they've already lost their best player. Even now they don't seem to have the money to change that, but they really need it otherwise they're screwed. Southampton....anywhere between 10th-17th. If we end up with Lavia, Mara, Bella-Kotchap, Bazunu coming in and exciting everyone then we could have a good season. Likewise if they struggle to adapt due to their age we will be in for a long hard battle.

Possibly deliberate if they want to keep him slight/nippy/able to turn quick etc. But I don't think that alone is enough to make you a success at this level if you're not particularly 'skilful'. He doesn't need to become hulk, but just a little bit of upper strength!

It doesn't look like any real league experience in any country is desirable 😄 I don't have a problem with signing talent like this, it's exciting, but when you're working from an 'experienced' base of Adam Armstrong, Moussa, Elyonoussi it makes me somewhat nervous as we'd need these kids to hit the ground pretty quickly.

Wouldn't have said he'd done that well, somewhat surprising. I guess some of that may be a 'bounce' effect, but hard to say. I dunno, I just have a feeling that he will crash and burn and his americanisms will begin to irritate all.

Honestly, I'd hope it would be someone like the guy from Sttuggart (Kalajdizc). Martin Terrier from Rennes. Dolberg from Nice. - Those sorts of players, not 'old', but with a few league seasons behind them and coming up to their mid 20's. I do have a somewhat uncomfortable feeling that we are going to risk it with a kid who hasn't ever played pro football though, as we have form for those transfers with Lavia, Tino etc.

I think we'll get two strikers, one who is more of a natural number 9/target man type, and another who can play across the front and out wide if required. Mara fits the bill for the later, Delap fits the bill for the number 9 type. My argument is that I don't think the club will sign two kids for this position, I'd imagine one of the strikers will be someone in the 22/23 mould with a bit of league experience behind them. . I think '1' untried kid is fine, but two untried kids in the position which will make or break our season is a bit risky to say the least.

Yeah, his frame is tiny. That's always going to hold him back at this level as he doesn't really have anything else about his game bar pace. In the Champ you can catch teams on the break with your pace, but at this level that doesn't happen as often so you need to have a bit of physicality to help build the game as well, otherwise it's very easy to become isolated with the attack/midfield so far apart, as we often saw when he played.