S-Clarke

Casualty of the way we approached games really. In history we've always complained about how technical Spain/Brazil players etc are in comparison with our players, but Foden is in the style of a Spanish or Brazilian player. The way we play does not cater for players in the style of Foden, your sloggers and workhorses will do well in this side (which is why Kalvin Phillips looked decent, Trippier in the past etc), but pure technical players will be lost and you'll never see the best from them - apart from the chance of 'moments'. I saw quite a few occasions in all 7 games of Foden coming so deep to collect the ball from the CB's, that's not where you want him. He was having to come to find the ball as we had no concerted system to get the ball to our technical players in space. It was so painful to watch the most technical attackers in the world have their attacking stats through the floor. That's not the players fault.

There's no basis for those claims anymore. They were made null and void the moment Spurs and Newcastle jetted off for a series of friendlies in Australia the week after the season ended.

I think in a way you are overestimating the Spanish players here. They have good players, but they aren't hitting the same heights as ours domestically. Cucurella surprised me this tournament, as he has been nothing but a comedy figure for Chelsea. The best player in Spain this year wasn't even a Spanish player, it was Bellingham.

It's sad to read this really, I do think there is still quite a large element of dinosaur/Allardyce/mike Bassett level coaching in this country. We had fans last season shouting at us to ''GET IN THE BOX'', that seems to still linger in grass roots coaching as well. Honestly, football moved on 20 years ago from that. There are players who do seem to escape that coaching - Foden, Saka, Bellingham, Palmer are seriously technical without being 'massive' - but quite a few of those have had the Pep influence through their young days. Pep has actually done a lot of good for English football and the coaching of our younger players. I do still think there is too much of a focus on old school England 4-4-2 ''get in the box'' style from British coaching. We had a problem previously where we weren't producing the right players, but I think we are now in some area's. We just need the coaching to embrace it as like you say, really good technical players are going to fall through the gaps if the coaching doesn't improve.

On the other hand, Spain had a plan for our players - for one, I noticed Saka had no space. Whenever he was on the ball he was doubled up on, normally Williams helping out there as well - Saka never had any real chance to take on a player and get past them as they did a good job marking him out of it. Spain play good football, but their off the ball work was just as impressive. They pressed in packs, as groups - it was all choreographed. Whereas if we pressed it was a half arsed effort from Kane or Foden as a single press. Sometimes a couple pressed, but because it wasn't a concerted effort Spain would break the transition and be at us. Maybe we don't have the players to press like they did, but you could see the work Spain had done on us tactically to stop our threats, yet we just did the same things as we have done all tournament.

I wish we were Scotland.

He's undoubtably been our luckiest ever manager IMO. I think there was a tournament where he finished 2nd and still faced a favourable draw. It's undeniable really that he's been a bit jammy! It's taken pens to beat a pretty average Switzerland side, and a last min goal to rescue a draw against Slovakia. This tournament has been an absolute bore-fest by us for 90% of it, the Dutch game was the best we'd played, but the rest of it has been an unforgettable load of rubbish and we were very, very fortunate to get as far as we did. Management didn't get us there.

If you go back to our tournaments under Sven, we went out against a super Portugal team of the time in 2004 and 2006, first tough team we faced really. In 2022 we were knocked out by Brazil. Capello was knocked out in 2010 by Germany, a very good Germany in that period too. Hodgson done by a good Italian team in 2012. 2014 and 2016 the less said the better, team was in a weird transitional phase. Under Southgate we've had really, really fortunate draws to get through to the latter stages of tournaments. I don't think anyone can deny that when you compare the teams Sven had to face early on in the quarters for example. I think Southgate has done the same as Sven really, beaten who you'd expect us to beat, but fallen short when facing the really good sides - we've just been lucky to avoid the really good sides until the real later stages (finals) in the recent tournaments.

He's the definition of a reactive manager. Sometimes the changes work when you are chasing, such as against Holland - but it's not the way to manage if you want any form of success, apart from the odd win here and there. He's not shrewd enough to read the game to understand what's changing and act before the pattern changes. The top, top managers such as Klopp, Pep etc, can react before the rest of us can see because they know what's about to happen. It's a flaw in his managerial skillset and his coaches. It has held us back during the best opportunities we've had to win trophies.

Kane is carrying something IMO, it's the only conclusion I can come to - he hit 40 odd goals in Germany this year. Or is German football that horrific that it's regressed him as a player? Rice had a poor tournament overall, but I think that is primarily down to lack of a stable partner. We went into the tournament with no idea who to partner him with. Started with Trent, moved to Gallagher and then went with the kid (Mainoo) - who was the best of the bunch, but he's still a kid and todays game was way, way too big for him. Mainoo could develop into Rice's partner, but I was surprised we didn't see more of Wharton - he is your typical dictating CM, nothing flashy about him, but he keeps the ball and is stable.

I think we do have some great players, genuinely. What Foden does for City is ridiculous, he carries them on occasions. Bellingham carried Madrid last year as well through quite a few moments. Rice turned Arsenal's midfield around and ousted Jorginho who won against us in the last Euro's. In previous years you could argue it's because our players aren't technical enough, gross roots isn't generating the right sort etc etc - but we are now, they're there in front of us. They can match up with the best if we went for their throat, risk adverse never wins you anything.

If you go back to our last tournaments, we've been fortunate to ridiculous levels with the draws. Denmark, Ukraine, Slovakia, Scotland, Switzerland, Slovenia etc etc - those teams have been in the runs of our Euro efforts. I'd say we've got there in spit of Southgate more than anything. The way he sets us up is old school, Mourinho-style finished in 2010 along with Allardyce. Back in previous years when we were weak in attack them maybe I could appreciate a focus on defending, but we have the players to cause ANYONE a problem. But the structure placed around them does not suit that style of player, it's a destructive style that is based on 'moments' and breakaways - the likes of Foden, Bellingham etc are not periphery players - they need to be involved.

Well, exactly. Why we are in the final is ALL about the draw, nothing else. The right team won, they fully deserved it.

That's the key bit for me - Bellingham, Foden, Palmer, Saka - so technical, they can do things with the football that English players have never really been able to do. Easily a match for any player in that sense. But if we don't play to their strengths and hit balls over the heads, then it's all pretty much null and void really. Like you say, we've got to find a manager and coaching staff who can embrace our attacking players and unlock that pass/move which they can do. This old school hit it long, 4-4-2, low block bollocks is done - it was done 10 years ago with Mourinho tbf.

I mean, you can surely see why people rave about him? Just look at his scoring records, he's prolific. Not really his fault in the club game that he's not won anything, although you do wonder if he's a bit of a jinx! But you've got to credit his scoring record, England's greatest ever goal scorer - defo worth raving about in that sense. But it can't last forever.

I'd argue that the foundation to our progress in recent years have been the draws and the teams we've played. When we got a toughie in the quarters at the World Cup (France), we came un stuck. I find it hard to say it's because of Southgate we've got to finals etc, it's ultimately been the draws and the teams we've played.

We're almost certainly the Spurs of the international game, that's a pretty depressing place to be. I thought Spain were levels above us, I don't think they should be, but they were - like PL against Championship for most of that game. We had the players to scare them and to make them sweat, but they had an easy game really. We just went into a low block, sunk deep and just played an old school 4-4-2, long balls game. Football has moved on, it really has - It's nothing bar luck that we've got this far, the way we play almost certainly has to change. Pickford made some great saves, but he's part of the problem with his distribution. You cannot keep playing aimless log balls and hitting it long against passing teams, because it makes it so easy for them to win it back...and when they have it back, we're just chasing shadows. We have some fantastic technical players with the ball at their feet, just as technical as most of those Spanish players, but if we stand off and play so deep it's almost impossible for them to get into the game - and when the ball is in the air, they've got no chance. Southgate has given us some fun moments in recent years for sure, but for me it will always be a case of what could have been. The last Euro's was the one for me, that was a pretty average Italian team - but we did the same against them, just sat back and waited for the ineveitable. There's a lot to build from for a new manager in the creative/attacking third, we need someone who can just let them off their leach a bit and remove that dinosaur football approach out of their heads. For players like Foden, Bellingham, Saka, Rice etc it's foreign to them - they play pass, move, quick football with their clubs - so they can do it, but we just don't provide the structure for that. Onto the next one I guess, congrats to Spain - 7 out of 7, cannot argue with that. Be interesting to see who our next manager is going to be.

Dumfries at Inter was one - Inter had him on their list should the interest in Dumfries intensify, but it never did. He's held in decent regard across Europe for what he's done at AZ though.

Agreed, I think he's going to be a top capture for us. Dare I say coup given our status as a promoted side and taking into account the other teams who have been tracking him.

I'd say taking over a year to sign a player, they supposedly want, is a bit more than just sensibly taking their time! I read the post as a dig that we're dallying on things, which I don't see. We've had a really authoritative window up to now.

What are you referring to on that one?

Yeah, no benefit to us now with Che sticking around. He's already missed two weeks of pre-season due to his dallying, so just let another club take him. Wolves don't want him enough, they could have got him for a couple of mill in the summer and dallied. Now they can get him for £0 and they're still dallying. I think other clubs see the enormous limitations in his game that we've all seen for years. And maybe his wage demands are simply not correlating with his ability.

Obligatory YouTube Video - This is a really top draw signing for a newly promoted side IMO. Surprised we've managed to get this one over the line, he was being watched by some top European sides.

Ah yes of course, forgot that one. Doesn't leave any viable options for Ramsdale if he wants to play first choice football in England.