david in sweden

YES ..whilst some people maybe " appointed " from on high, leaders often "emerge" from the ranks. I don't know who the Hammers captain is supposed to be ?... but another term like this one might see JWP getting the nod.

If we are looking for anything positive from that shambles, we can see that Bazunu was not soley responsible for those 16 goals we've concede so far. His level of responsibility for the latest defeat may possibly stand for ..one goal (?)... whilst his several saves - and Leicester's misplaced sitters might easily have brought another 0-9 result. His nervousness came mostly from the numerous back passes from the red and white statues in front of him who were incapable of making passes upfield instead. They looked terrified after that horrific start and Vardy had a smile on his face for the whole game. My MOM was Adam Armstrong - who having to live with jibes about not scoring regularly did a huge job in defending, backtracking, and even making a last ditch clearance that clearly should have been someone else's job, but no-one else was there. Bednarek and Stephens were heavily criticised by " some fans" on here at the start of the season, but without them we really look a very poor side. These new talents we have may have been stars in U21 footballing circles, but are having a tough introduction into the world of " men's football ".

I agree that many pundits / former players were quick to praise him (except Southgate who regularly ignored him for England) but what was most annoying for me was that vociferous band of "Saints fans " who continually came on line and criticised him for doing " nothing special"....except maybe scoring those free kicks and the occasional penalty, when there was a group of " fan favourites " who contributed much less to the team's efforts. Now that he's playing for ..." a London Club "..and drawing M.o.M awards nearly every game - just how is he performing any differently ?. Right now we can clearly see what he brought to the Saints' overall team performances. There's a huge hole in midfield where he used to play.

I stopped ploughing through all the criticisms above before reminding myself of the 1990's TV pundit who said .." you don't win things with kids ". In our case that even means Championship games. Whilst many of those on show may have looked good prospects at U21 level, (where you 're not allowed to tackle ) too many have almost zero first team experience, and had no support because of the absent Stephens and Bednarek, whilst It was almost written in the sand that Vardy would get a goal , but no-one thought quite so quickly. He had a field day and was laughing his way throughout the game when coming up against our new season's young debutants who looked like rabbits caught in the headlights in the first 20 minutes. They passed back to Bazunu more times than looked safe, and that clearly scared him a lot ... as well as the rest of us. Leicester may have been relegated, but they have the bulk of their squad intact and have already highlighted the difference between the Prem. and mediocre Championship sides - even before yesterdays game. Leicester looked a class above everything and had it not been for some poor Leicester finishing (and Bazunu's acrobatics) we might have been looking at another 9 goal thrashing. The shots tally was 19-15 ( which included 8 shots each on target ), but the final scoreline showed the real difference. It seems like an awful long way to the next window, and the return of JS and JB can't come quickly enough and having signed Ross Stewart we can only hope that he regains the scoring form he once had AND stays fit for the rest of the season. It's easy to blame Russell Martin, but looking at the bench yesterday there weren't many obvious alternatives to turn to.

Nice memory, (and with a great Koeman side), but it was rather optimistic of you.

Good point Lighthouse. I've always said that I never take a serious look at stats. or the table until after games 7 or 8, and many times in the past we started badly - and even been in the bottom 3 at that stage - yet still got our act together in late season. As always... the " excellent work " we always hear about on the training ground must show itself on match days.

I think most of us would have to admit that given our injury list, and lack of cohesion in an ever-changing line-up, this won't be anything like Russell Martin's " dream team ". We've picked up some points from a few games without looking like promotion candidates, but it's a long season with 41 matches still to play but regardless of results, the Leicester (and Ipswich games) will be a good marker for the future when we play against two of the early season leaders. On the face of it ..two draws might keep us in the mix, but a real test for new players coming in with very little League experience. Defeats won't mean the end of the campaign, but make it more challenging to get into the top six from a midtable morass of nonentities.

If he starts scoring as he did at Genk, he'll soon be in demand elsewhere and we might recoup our investment .. and maybe a bit more.? Good player (?) .but wrong move coming to us.

unless he's grown more in the last year or so, he does sound a bit "undersized " for a CB - even if he can jump. With that physique sounds more like he should be a DM and perhaps playing in front of a back four who have some height. I'm " old school on this" and IMHO a CB needs to be min. 6'2" in my book, good in the air and have a bit of pace, too.

... seems that a lot of people spend too much time dwelling on those negative deals without realising that we actually made good money on a very few deals. With hindsight, Onuacho was the wrong deal for both Saints and the player, but if he rediscovers his scoring form in Turkey, we will get back our investment and perhaps even more, likewise ABK cost less than 10 million, but a good season on loan will bring a very positive return when he moves permanently. Players on their last season often sadly move for less than their worth, and so I'm glad that we held out in not selling Che Adams too cheaply. Amongst those players who left the club; Salisu, Livramento, JWP, Lavia, Tella and JJ Morgan cost the club less than 30 million to sign in the first place whilst the net profit of selling them now has been c... 140 million. This doesn't make the club rich, but will help to balance the books after the huge 70 million bank loan we took out during COVID, and the outstanding repayments for those terrible deals from the Wilson / Reed period, and a raft of " former managers " still to pay off. (Longer memories recall that the Boufal and Carrillo deals who failed to live up to their hype, whilst during his time Nicola Cortese almost bankrupted the club a second time with the disasterous deals for Osvaldo and Ramirez in 2013). Although we are unlikely to get another window with anywhere near the recent profits, our new arrivals have cost a very small part of that amount that may well be much more if / when they move on ... in the future. I'd say we'd had a good window - for once, especially compared to some of those " big clubs " who burden themselves with huge buys, who then fail, which can be very painful. After squandering ....72 million on Nicolas Pepe a few years ago, Arsenal were forced to let his go... . on a free transfer. and Daniel Levy at Spurs must be smarting after having to rid himself of two players - whose combined transfer fees were c. 100 million - he could only recoup a bare 30 million for them. Not a lot of fun when you have a billion pound stadium to pay for and no promise of any great success in sight. The 90 million (?) he got for Harry Kane must seem a very small reward for the loss of a top striker, and with no obvious replacement available.

...... seems that those impatient types who blame Gavin Bazunu for every goal we concede will be (figuratively) sharpening their pencils in preparation for a wave of criticism when the next goal rush comes against GB after the report that Jan Bednarek was injured in the first half of his game for Poland... now in the event of a longer term absence we are .to say the least ....a bit thin on the ground for alternative CB's. With Salisu, ABK, Lyanco and Caleta-Car already gone, and the promising Ryan Finnegan out on loan at Shrewsbury, we are left with the newly-loaned Mason Holgate , and the untried Harwood-Bellis as possible CB's ..and /or ...Shea Charles as a versatile alternative. Back to ..Bazunu who became the whipping boy after the Sunderland defeat, and that doesn't bode well for the Leicester game. I make no apology for repeating myself -- yet again . A goalie is only as good as the defence in front of him.. Our strike force will pick itself, but we need to pack the bench with every fit defender who is available for Friday night.. Sadly, goalkeepers are blamed every time, but the striker who misses 3 or 4 sitters has only had .. a bit of " bad luck " . Put blame where it belongs.

Not the first teenage injury we have seen... which goes to prove the point that " looking great " in U21 football, (or was he U18?) is no guarantee when stepping up to meet the demands of the training regime required to be a Premier League player. Maybe Poch had pushed him a bit too hard?

Although Saints have had a couple of small deals with the Saudi / Arab leagues ( Diallo and Lyanco) it's not surprising to see many other clubs unloading their "square pegs" to that market in order to reduce their salary bills.. I also see a lot of those ridiculous buys that some of top clubs made in the past now moving for tragically low fees. Spurs have sold off over 100 million pounds worth of players - for less than 30 million, in deals that Daniel Levy will regret forever and I don't see their 100 million from the Kane deal bringing them much joy in the future. Our investment in young talents may take a while to come to fruition, but in the long run I don't see us spending another 100 million in any future window - until we get back up to the Prem.

Not sure, I have a British passport .. that's if Scotland are still in the Union... and if N.I. are still outside of the EU? I think he already has a British passport ?. .maybe born in UK ? ...or, has a British parent ? .. or maybe off the Black Market in passports ? ..who knows.

We were having a bad time around then, and had actually lost 1-4 to Arsenal at Highbury the week before. Ironically ......the 1-5 Blackpool you mentioned (dec.66) was a blessing in disguise as we later bought Hugh Fisher from them, (he had masterminded that win), but ironically it was one of only 6 Blackpool wins that season - as they were later relegated. Dave MacLaren was in goal for that game . Not a good deal, as he had been Wolves goalie the previous season when we beat them 9-3 at The Dell in September 1965 . MacLaren came in dramatically after Campbell Forsyth broke his leg v. Liverpool in September 66, but we then conceded 44 goals in the first 17 games after MacLaren signed .(!) ... Of course that wasn't the only 1-5 drabbing we suffered around that time... and the notorious "Shilton goal" came in October 1967 (v. Leicester).. when the wind blew his kick-out way down the ground.... and over the head of Campbell Forsyth in the Saints goal.

Anyone seeing those 0-9 results for the first time might get a totally wrong idea of the events in the games concerned. Every time I hear them mentioned I either feel embarrassment ..alternatively ...anger ....because of the refereeing decisions and the circumstances in the two games. The Leicester game was played in a howling gale - with Saints playing into the wind - and the turning point came after Bertrand was sent off in... the first 15 minutes (?). As I recall the " foul " (a clumsy challenge on a wet surface) didn't bother the ref. enough but played on until it was suggested by the VAR official that he take a look at it. This was a red card in the making ...as the ref. wasn't going to deny it - and make a fool of his refereeing colleague. It was made worse by Perez's " Latin antics " as he lay on the ground unsure of whether he would need a stretcher, or a coffin brought onto the pitch. However, he was still fit enough to score a couple of goals later. Leicester had their tails up and scored 3 by 20 minutes, and had 5 by HT. More goals were inevitable against the disheartened 10 men we had left on the pitch. The Man . Utd game had another scenario. As if playing at Old Trafford wasn't difficult enough, I always felt that Ralph H. was in part to blame for the result in choosing the young Jankewitz for his debut (either knowing, or ignoring) the fact that the Swiss lad had already picked up 3 yellows and one red card in early season playing for the U21. He got attention by claiming he was good enough for the first team and demanded a transfer ...if he didn't get his chance. " A loose cannon " whose one minute "leg breaker of a foul" deserved a red card. With hindsight Ralph might have ignored the idle threat and disciplined him. Playing the next 88 minutes was purely down to " how many " MU would score. Even going into the last 10 minutes at 0-6 wasn't a disaster of a scoreline. but the travesty that followed made it even worse. Here referee Dean comes into the picture once again. Any United player falling over in the area at Old Trafford is a sure penalty every day of the week, (according to the Ferguson Book of Old Trafford Rules ) and whilst Bednarek furiously denied any wrongdoing Dean then gave a red card - without even consulting the VAR screen. The United striker concerned (Rashford?) later admitted that he wasn't fouled, and didn't dive !... but had simply fallen over his own feet. Those extra 3 goals were inevitable and I 'm just glad it hadn't happened earlier in the game. These two games will eternally stay in the record books under " record defeats" but in part might never have been, were it not for referees who might have used a little common sense in their decision-making. The entire situation was made worse last week when the now " ex-referee Dean " made the confession that he had (historically) made "certain decisions" - in order to avoid " embarrassing his colleagues " . A more damning admission you could not wish to hear. As this is on the thread for the Sunderland game ...I can't help feeling that either (the now non-existent VAR) ....or another referee might have paid more attention to the couple of penalty shouts that we had during the game. It might not have altered the eventual result, but it would have been less embarrassing, but , as ever, it is a brave referee who would give a penalty against the home side, let alone two. That's my rant over.

1) Age is not always a factor with goalies, but it takes time and I've always maintained that a goalie is only as good as the defence in front of him, and he was not soley responsible for our relegation, and it maybe proves this point that most of the defenders who did play last season... are no longer with the club. Whenever we lose.... the keeper is the first to be blamed, but rarely those strikers who missed several sitters throughout the match. Jordan Pickford was no. 1 keeper with Sunderland when they conceded bucket loads of goals the season they were relegated, but he was not so bad that Everton still paid out 30 million to buy him afterwards. We can already see Everton's lowly place in the table, but he is still first choice for England. Lawrie Mc Menemy signed Peter Shilton (then England keeper with 35 caps) in summer 1982 , yet Saints disasterously conceded 18 goals in his first 7 games. He was still England keeper ( having gained another 49 (of his 125 caps)...when he left the club 5 years later. (2) I don't think that Bazunu is a bad keeper, as one can see by some of the saves he has made, and although he has made a few mistakes, Russell Martin was (rightly) quick to his defence in saying that he had been let down by teammates who didn't do their jobs. Goalies - even at this level - aren't cheap and Burnley paid out 18 million (?) for Bazunu's successor from Man. City in the summer, but they don't seem any better for it. Angus Gunn was a catastrophic buy for us, but now looks the part at Norwich. (3) We must stick with him now, as the only viable alternative is Alex McCarthy, but in all honesty I think I'd rather play Joe Lumley in a crisis situation. The answer has to be to bring all the CB's up to standard, and find the right balance PDQ. The Sunderland game was wake-up call, but aside from the Norwich game when we conceded four, we have done enough to get the point in the other games. We will always concede goals, but must get our strike force upto grade ASAP. Dropping anyone has a big psychological effect on goalies, but there isn't a lot of alternatives sitting on the bench.

Hopefully we might put this down to a very bad day at the office, but we'll know the short term outcome of that after the Midd´boro' away game. Whilst we still searching for familiar names in the line-up , the new ones are coming in and still learning each others names, let alone position . Those who have a background at Man. City may know each other, but RM has admitted that it was wrong to throw in Holgate after one day at the club but to be fair, he wasn't the only one who lost his way, or failed to turn up on the day. A lot of criticism of Bazunu, but I agree with RM that he doesn't deserve the aggro' and gets little support from the defence in front of him. VERY few young keepers at the top level are faultless and it's a tough learning process and few succeed in the short term. It is only the (rare) Shilton's in the game who grow into legends, whilst Joe Hart was great as a young man, but then got progressively worse. The young ones who shine for a while soon face the realities of life. Pickford looked great at Sunderland(?).. while conceding a record number of goals but he is still - arguably - the best England keeper (despite Everton's position) and Ramsdale and Pope look little better. Goalkeepers take time mature but I have not changed my opinion (in over 60 years)... that good keepers don't reach their peak until around 30 ...and it's a long road. Bednarek has looked the most consistent helper despite his lack of pace and the joy of seeing a full back bombing forward in attack is soon lost in the chaos when they can't defend properly anyway. The "new names " will take time to establish themselves, but already those regular critics (who canned Prowsey every game).. will have noted that his " roaming role " often filled the midfield gaps that have been so obvious since his departure. The biggest change in team personnel in my lifetime means it will need time - that we don't have - to sort it out and PDQ.

I think most of you (above) have covered the various excuses / explanations / comments and criticisms. It is early season and there is still time to have the players introduced to each other and have them play in permanent positions instead of chopping and changing everyone . I know RM has his system, but Manning is not a good example of how it should work. We are beginning to see where we will miss JWP who roamed around picking us loose balls and finding his own players with great accuracy, but some of our midfield passing was abominable and any positivity from our younger recruits disappeared after the first 7 minutes .... Despite the 68% possession, we had no answer to their breakaways and Mowbray will be pleased he even had a 16 y.o debutant who scored their last goal. With hindsight we might conclude that are previous 3 narrow victories had a lot of luck attached and those opposition sides didn't show Sunderland's aggression. With VAR we might have got a couple of penalty shouts but we have to learn that it gonna be like that in this league, and not every ref. will give yellows for diving. The next two fixtures will likely determine how our season will go. Both Leicester and Ipswich have shown good starts, but the prospect of another trip upto the North East at the end of the month, is not an attractive idea. Two good / acceptable results now will keep us in the top 6, but another Sunderland result will have us struggling and longing for the next window.

KWP is one of the very few signings from Spurs that have worked well for us, and a just reward for past signings that Daniel Levy has scre*ed us over, (with the Hojbjerg deal as a stand out example the last time). Ironic that now we see Spurs trading off some of the defenders that have failed to fill that role since. (Spence latest). Also ironic that KWP has proven that he can play in either full back position with equal skill, and is just what Spurs need right now. I don't believe that Levy would dare to re-sign him, as it would prove what a mistake he made in letting him go in the first place. I doubt that KWP would be happy to return , but I hope he gets a good move as he is a genuine Prem. level player.

perhaps he should modestly stand there and wait for his team mates to come and clap him on the back ...and say " well done Sir ".....or ?

trousers ... I agree 100% , but you have undoubtedly forgotten about the absolute power of the media. If the Sky and BBC pundits don't fancy him, then he has no chance of getting into the England team. Southgate will have Henderson on an Emirates flight back from the Middle East (even if he's injured), before the next squad is even officially announced, and then JH will sit on the bench - next to Conor Gallagher, and neither of them will need to take off their tracksuits. With power like that it means that JWP will follow MLT into the record books as " an occasional player " who never quite made it for England. Perhaps ...it may change ....If Prowsey gets another goal / assist at the weekend and West Ham are in the top four. Otherwise - no chance.

I think " someone " may have warned RM that he can't / shouldn't buy up too many Swansea players. Those who have been mentioned were perhaps the best of the bunch, but now he didn't get Piroe, and will perhaps miss signing Wood. My point is that IF they were the best he had at Swansea, they ought to have been a real challenger for promotion last season, and they weren't. Every manager has " favourites" he wants to take with him when he moves club, but there is surely a limit to how many more he will be " allowed " to sign. There are " other voices" in the club who have certain players they want to see in the squad so that they will surely draw the line .." somewhere ".

It never ceases to amaze me that so many people still think that because a player cost little - or nothing at all - he is automatically... sh*t. Historically ..The vast majority of our best players cost us no more than the player's salary. This list is endless. Paine, Sydenham, Chivers, Channon ...etc. and many of " big money " signings in the last 30 years weren't worth the ink in the pen on their contracts. .Ramirez, Osvaldo, Hoedt, Carrillo, Onuacho? ..et al... whilst others who came as free transfers / Bosman signings included Dean Richards, and Hassan Katchloul... (who walked in off the street - and asked for trial). The list of our own youth players has been well-publicised and probably begun (before Walcott and Bale) with young Wayne Bridge ..(later 6 million to Chelsea) MLT is in their somewhere along with Alan Shearer, the Wallace's and ....and more recently; Shaw, Targett, Chambers, Reed...... and " that Ward-Prowse fellow ". Some who were rejected by other clubs and came to Saints included Cork and Bertrand (both were loaned out by Chelsea 5-6 times) before finally signing for us. I guess Tino and Lavia (both signed for relatively small fees ) and now even Nathan Tella are examples of the latest crop. Many of those we are selling now initially cost very little, but need to be sold to cover (the debts) incurred in buying expensive misfits not worth their salt. Spending BIG money on players guarantees NOTHING...as Spurs and Chelsea have found to their cost, whilst those like Rickie Lambert cost a mere one million (RL - a one time non-league player promoted to L1 ) before coming to us ...grew into his role over time, and later ended up as an England striker. The proof of a players true value is shown in every 90+ minutes he plays, and if he cost a small fee, or even nothing at all, it is a bonus for the club. In all honesty ....after 60+ years as a Saints fan....the larger the fee we pay out for someone.. .the more I anticipate inevitable failure.

3 wins out of four and still in top six after 4 games must be something to celebrate. With impending transfers away and injuries after every game RM is having to make it up as he goes along, and not doing too bad so far, but already we are hearing critical voices reminding us that despite having sold our best for over 100 million we are still ONLY signing loans and free transfers. The club is still trying to balance the books and pay debts after last season's disasterous spending spree. I don't think the lack of " big money " signings has hampered us ...and Charles, Downes and Fraser look like good deals. The Championship isn't the Prem. or anything like it, as Luton, Sheff.Utd and Burnley will soon discover to their discomfort. Everton managed to survive despite their financial crisis but that won't last, unless they find yet another billionaire to squander his money. With more signings on the way, Saints are building " a new look " in the squad and we can worry about big deals when / if we get promoted. There is still a lot to fix - especially in defence - but as long as we can conjure one goal more than the opposition it looks promising. If we can maintain this form for 2-3 months, I'd say we have the makings of a good squad - made up of low cost investments.