david in sweden

Good to read you on this issue, patred44. Although I guess I'm abit younger than you...I only started supporting Saints as a schoolboy in the late 50's...many is the time I've heard this sorry tale from my late father who was a staunch fan in the post war period. Those two devastating seasons 48/49 and 49/50 were just too much for many of his generation ..only to be followed by releagtion 3 years later. The influence that Charlie Wayman had on the side cannot be under-rated as we can see by his scoring record. Having joined in October '47 ..he scored 17 times in 27 starts.´in his first season. The following season he netted 32 goals in 37 games (of 42). Your memory of that time is pretty accurate ( according to In that Number). Saints were 8 points clear at Easter with 7 games left. The fateful game at White Hart Lane is legend - if not for the 69,000+ crowd, but because Ted Bates hit both posts ..and had a shot cleared off the line. Finally Wayman (already injured) scored after GK had parried his first shot in 82 mins.. No subs. in those days and Charlie went off with a badly pulled thigh muscle - didn't play for another 4 games but was never fit. The tragic games that followed were a travesty and in midst of missed penalties and disallowed "goals " we lost 4 of the last 7 games. We finished 3rd - in the days when only the top 2 got promotion. The following season 49/50 was more of a tragedy, as although they weren't direct title challengers (that ws Spurs -who had since signed Saints star FB Alf Ramsey) but Saints lost only one of the last 12 games and finished tantilisingly with the two Sheffield clubs - all on 52 points, but lost out on goal average. Waymans share was 24 goals in 36 games...and then he left and moved back up North. In those days Saints were continually in debt kept afloat only by contributions from richer directors. It's probably true to say that we wouldn't have been able to afford the cost of a Div. 1 lifestyle, but maybe a bit unfair to say that the club didn't want promotion, but everything costs! In all this time Charlie Wayman was not only a club hero but got recognition from many as a top class striker, and there was never anyone in reserve even close to him. No Saints player since has ever come close to his 77 goals in 107 games. In later years , we had many good strikers, Reeves and George O'Brien. The legendary Ron Davies, but there were always reserves whenever he was injured (Chivers and Channon). The thing that really worries me, is that we have no real replacement for the injured Lambert -at such a crucial time . Of course we all hope to see him back ASAP, but what if ...? I really hope we can patch together a strike force that will clear us until January, and beyond and that we have a fully-fit Lambert back to carry on his goal-scoring marathon. Our defence is, generally speaking quite good (as it was in Waymans day when we had one of the best defences) but without a big man up front we will lack goals and lose points. My priority for January is TWO strikers, and follow the age-old football analogy " play the man who is in form " , whoever it is ! The tragedy of the Wayman era must not be allowed to happen again. Surely no-one can say that we can't "afford " promotion now .

Quite right adrians, It's his first real chance to play in a good team (well, we are top of this league)... for any extended period of time, and it's really unfair to judge someone on barely two dozen games. Hopefully he will improve with time, and certainly seems to be the type of player who would do well for us in the Prem.

Congratulations Kelvin, it's been a rough ride at times, but all credit to him 'cos he stuck to us in the depths of relegation... and Administration. 250 games is a lot for a keeper - in one club. He's been loyal and a great club man. If anyone deserves a chance of promotion and play in the Prem...it's Kelvin.

well I think your statement is a little off there. Adkins does rotate the squad - doesn't he?... No outfield player has played in every league game...and Jack Cork has made 19 starts so far this season ...and been subbed only 5 times. One of those was v. Watford when Holmes came on and scored in the last 5 mins. Once was at Cardiff where we lost, though he did indeed come off v. Hull when it was stalemate at 0-0 HT and NA admitted he wanted to change the pattern. I thought he was a defender / or at least defensive-minded midfielder when we bought him? ...You may argue that he hasn't been playing well...? but I don't think he has fallen out-of-favour with NA ?.... but he certainly hasn't been subbed as much as you seemed to suggest. Guly, on the other hand has made 22 starts...and has been subbed on 18 occasions ! I don't think that NA is disatisfied with him as our second-highest scorer either...but he is around 30 and really doesn't need to play 95 mins. every game, he obviously tires a bit and has often been sensibly subbed by a more offensive player like ...Chaplow or De Ridder. It's a squad game, and I think that there are several others who may have been subbed. as much as /or even more than Cork.

the fact that you know "sod all " about Hunter isn't really a valid point -is it? I don't either. We rarely ever hear/see much of those behind the scenes, although to be fair Adkins is often praising them all. and for all we know Jason Dodd may be the next good coach we have - especially when we see some of his lads move up in the age range. Unfortunately, good coaches don't necessarily make good managers. There is a sad history of those who didn't . Stuart Gray for one . and Steve Wigley after him, but we easily forget how good their youth sides were in the early days.. and the comments from the man we all cringe to listen to ..Dave Merrington ..won't win the "voice of the year" for his radio commentaries, but over a long period coached the most successful generation of youngsters this club has EVER had (throughout the mid-late 1980's); MLT, Shearer, Maddison, the Wallace brothers, Benali, Dodd and Kenna (amongst others) all went on to First team careers and some of them internationals...but as first team manager, DM just managed to keep us up for one season, but was chopped off at the knees when Rupert Lowe arrived. To be fair to Jason Dodd, he was (together with ?Dave Bassett ?) holding the reins for a few weeks at a critical time when the team was in free fall, and a queue of people were playing musical chairs in the managers office. I don't think it fair to dismiss him from future participation without better evidence. Certainly HIS present youth side must be amongst the best since Merrington's time.

It wasn't desperation.. as much as to show that even in the tiniest backwater of the football world, some talent does exist. I'm won't bother to check on American Samoan players..last time I saw anything about them, Australia had beaten them 18-0 in a W.C.Qualifier ..or was it 30-0 ? -but i do know that a couple of San Marino players are in Serie B teams in Italy, and at least one Lichenstein player in the Swiss league. ...I made a stab at the Icelandic population, which I had thought was even closer to 300K....now it's grown considerably. It's a terribly bleak place, so maybe the residents don't have so much else to do on those eternally dark evenings (!).

you are old-fashioned Toomer ..and so am I. Somehow, I get withdrawal symptoms around 3 pm (4pm Swedish time )on a Saturday when there is no league game, or nothing worthwhile to follow. My family joke with me about this when I disappear into my cellar office and try to follow games in peace and quiet and woe betide anyone who interrupts me. Even if it isn't always 3 points every week, I'm not angry or agitated afterwards. After having started my days as a Saints fan with Div 3 South in the late 1950's ..and followed everything between.. I can be more philosophical, but nevertheless Saturday afternoon ..IS.. Saturday afternoon. It may suit the TV companies to have mass viewing from Friday night till Monday evening, but in football's case .. it is 3pm Saturdays that is... holy!

Sorry !...but I have to agree with the validity of this thread Turkish. The day after we get promoted is a bit too late to start thinking about such decisions. A quick look through the profiles of most Prem. clubs - even those near the bottom - shows that almost all of them have internationals as regulars in their squads. (albeit Third world countries in FIFA's reckoning). Good players exist in all countries - even those who rate over 100 in FIFAs table. Latvia had always been in the 50-100 ratings, but how I wish we could find another Pahars - regardless of where he comes from. Many Prem. sides have at least TWO international goalies in their squads, we did when we had Jones and Niemi vying for the place. Kenwyne Jones can hardly be called a world-beater, but he has had a better Prem. career than many others could dream of. If Cortese/ Adkins are genuinely planning for ...Life in the Prem 2012- ????, then I hope they will have been seriously considering this, because I'm sure some of our fans have. Maybe this squad is good enough to go up (barring serious injury problems) ..but we equally well know -in that eventuality..some of them won't " make the cut", and go onto a Prem. career, however hopeful they may be. Their replacements will need to be of a much better quality if we are to survive.

we should highlight two major points, Firstly the manager /management has control of the club and what they say goes ..as long as they have the job... BUT there has to be a place for sensible /sane discussion where there is a problem not easily solved. Test ban treaties aren't negociated over night and the future of the club / any single player deserves more time than just a few hastily, ill-chosen words shouted in the heat of the moment. It may well be that JP has played his last game for SFC. He may move on a career with another club..or even sink to the depth of L2 , but most people would agree that an on-form JP deserves much better than that. Mistakes are made...and SFC is no exception. Some of the misjudgements we've made are monumental. key cases; Kevin Phillips (one-time Saints junior full back) released at 17 , dropped down into non-league football before climbing back into the FL, then Premiership ..30+ Prem. goals with Sunderland..and England honours. It later cost us over £3 million to get him back for a couple of fruitless seasons. ....and what if ...Strachan and Kevin Davies had got along better?. Freed to Bolton, he has been the mainstay of their team for almost 10 years. Maybe Puncheon is a waste of space ... but SFC should be absolutely certain to make the correct decision ...in case he may come back to haunt us at a later date !

Some people seem to be afraid of our " upcoming / impending / likely " Prem. status (that choice of synonyms should create a furore with some) and the likelihood of us getting " canned " by every other Prem.side but I agree with you Lighthouse that we need to have a broader understanding of what Premiership status means nowadays and what sort of players we need to compete. A quick look at today's table shows that , aside from the top 6-7 sides, and a couple more who are holding their own.. the bottom 10 in the Prem. are all likely to fall into the relegation zone if they lose a couple of games, whereas one win can move someone up 4-5 places. We really don't know, to what level the Cortese / Liebherr consortium is likely to commit themselves to - when we eventually go up, but if (as NC has intimated) they will lay out big money to consolidate our new status, then we need to rapidly put behind us the doubts and misgivings than were appparant only 9 months ago as an L1 club, and consider what sort of side we will put out if we get Man.City as the first home game next August ! It needs a visionary who can plan longer-term.. and not someone with " tunnel-vision," or " rose-coloured spectacles ". Let's hope that NC and NA between them can deliver the goods....on time !.

I go along with most of your text Professor, but there are several points to consider. Buying in players can cost real money, and we would expect to break our 11 year old club (Rory Delap) signing fee, several times over...this also demands much higher sums in the order of salaries. I doubt if any of the current CC sides have that sort of money readily available - except maybe last years relegated sides. If (and when) we get promotion, then we obviously are more attractive to foreign international / better class Prem. players. Secondly, the international caps part though prestigious, depends a lot on who we are discussing and the position they play, and who they play for. Many might argue that MLT deserved FAR MORE caps than he ever received (except perhaps Messers. Venables and Hoddle) who blatantly neglected him at a time when he was one of the best players in the land. Likewise, both Wayne Bridge and James Beattie (at their best) were unlucky to have the competition they had for places ( Ashley Cole / Alan Shearer) in the England squad. Gareth Bale, being Welsh, was an automatic choice as soon as he had moved up a division, but he might well have been in competition for England - had be been considered for them instead. Aside from the top six/seven Prem.sides few clubs are overloaded with top class internationals, whereas smaller countries can still produce good individual players, as we have seen with the likes of Pahars and Niemi. WE can hope than we are able to find a few more of those types when we move up.

.... something around... £750K ?.. I recall it sounded very cheap at the time .

it's all down to what you consider " modest " isn't it Turkish? If you think of us as a former L1 side , newly promoted and wanting to consolidate in CC - then it sounds a goodly sum, compared to say ..Brighton and Peterboro's spending in the same period. If on the other hand, we are seen as a club who are top of the league, and likely candidates for automatic promotion to the Premiership, then I'd say we made some very shrewd buys for players who most likely would retain their team places when promoted. Of course we would need to spend a lot more on some key players to maintain a secure place in the Prem. but it seems to me that the majority of Prem. signings are costing many millions per player anyway. One million here or there, sounds like a "signing-on fee " for a player in the top divison. ..if not in a lump sum, then as a much higher salary check. Looking at us a potential Premiership side ..I think we've made some of the best buys for many a season past. Considering what we paid for players like; Pahars, Lundekvam Beattie, and Michael Svensson ..around 10 years ago...don't our most recent signings seem like a bargain to you ?..considering 10 year inflation.

....and hopefully..SDR or Holmes will hit a bit of form otherwise we have no credible replacement for Chaplow..

tbf, they seem to have made a good effort, even if they only scored once. Lowly though they may be ..Bristol Rovers are still a League side, and Totton aren't even in the Conference...yet !.

Agree totally saintmatt. If you've been watching results of those beneath us ..something like 9 teams have been in or around 5th / 6th place since September. Many of then would be glad to get a few points and move up into the top 6. I do think some of our fans are over-reacting a little. we are after all quite a few points ahead of the 3rd team.

tbf..if that was a comment on Twitter, you don't know how he thought when he wrote it . There are at least two scenarios here; 1).." I'd like to come back, but the fans (in the corner) hate me and wouldn't accept me back." 2).." Listen to those fans in the corner .. and you've got my answer." this is precisely why, comments misunderstood, or taken out of context are so often misinterpreted by others. example ".....you've never had it so good ..." IF.. JP had said.. " SFC is the last club I would want to play for.... I'd sooner quit the game " - you'd get a more accurate answer. Reading your comments, Rob M. I can't say that I'm convinced that means he's closed the door on a return...sounds a bit ambiguous to me. But at the end of the day, it's Nigel Adkins who needs to be convinced - not you and me. If he does come back (unlikely as it may seem) and scores again... he'll be quickly accepted again. How many of you have had a blazing row with your boss at some time, but you still got your job ...?

for about 10 minutes as I heard him say. But if that didn't work, then he can try something else ...Goodness.. our squad is big enough compared to most others in this division. there are still 12 points to be won - or lost ....before January 1st.

The club is foremost to be considered. Adkins is the manager and his authority is paramount. However, Puncheon seems equally bull-headed in his attitude........methinks that a good heart-to heart and mutual hatchet-burying would be in order. I recall that Lawrie Mc. had a way with one or two " troublesome types " Mark Dennis for one, and got them back on the right track. Why can't Nigel give him another chance..if we are to sew up this automatic promotion, we'll need all hands to help out. If he screws up AGAIN.. then we can be off with him for good. IF ...he can get his act together.. he can become a Prem. player ...with us !

I think ...that the real problem is..we will try and play all this lovely, flowing SMS type passing game away from home..and it doesn't work. (someone is going to say that is because we don't have 20,000 fans cheering us on) but as far as I'm aware our away travelling fans often make more noise than the home crowd..don't they? Teams come to SMS prepared to put lots of bodies behind the ball and win a point . It's good to win, but getting ONE point away from home would be an improvement on recent away form - wouldn't it ? Lots of Prem. sides change their " away line-up" to withstand the home teams onslaught, can't we be a little more defence minded, and try and fix ONE point ?

your faith in Ricky (and the team) is admirable, but I bet you 're glad you didn't ! I mean ..you didn't ...did you ?

YES it was a poor result, like the one two weeks ago. We are still top of the division, and may still win it ... BUT after losing to the two bottom teams in this league (games in which we should have massacred the opposition) - there must be serious doubts about the suitability of some of the squad to play a role when we are up in the Premiership. Adkins is a good manager and I am quite happy for him, but I wonder if he realises the standard of player(s) we will need to STAY up in the Prem.? Few of today's team seem to have covered themselves with glory. Is this going to happen every time we are missing just one star player - (Ricky Lambert)?

Surely today is the answer to that one. At least we should have had someone capable of scoring goals at this level. This is precisely what I had feared for all season. If (anyone) LJ or whoever, had been taken in on loan, at least we'd have had a strike force. Without Connolly and Lambert, Barnard is the only established striker in the club, and surely not 100% yet.. if he's only getting short sub.appearances? CORRECTION ; Sorry...of course, we do have Jonno Forte - is he back from his headline-making loan at Preston..yet ?