david in sweden

Statistically every season (on average) at least two teams in the top six will lose form badly after Easter ...so .....

Not such a dumb idea...IMHO. Lloyd James never really filled the bill at RB, (so AP won't want to revert to that) and having brought in " Semi " for Murty in the first place...now we have Thomas injured, too. Reports said Harding didn't look comfortable at RB, and whilst Mills is good cover at LB - should he get injured we have a bigger problem! We could do worse than bring in a Prem./ CCC reserve to cover us for the last 10 games.

REMEMBER ..The Great Escape Season... 98/99 .....nothing is ever over 'till the fat referee blows time on the last game.

perhaps....because that coherant planned passing doesn't work quite so well on some of the ploughed fields in this league. Pardew has admitted this. (Coincidentally, some of those teams who struggle at the lower end of the league.) Some of the goals which have cost us points have come from set-pieces and long range efforts that players (like Lambert) try ...from time to time. Even playing some form of coherent game plan depends on fair referees and a good playing surface. Allowing for a couple of " blips" ... our record since the arrival of Fonte & Co.(League game no.24) is surely as good as most teams in L1. Thats progress, and as I observed recently we have actually EARNED 60 points this season - only the EA's penalty of -10 makes it what it is.

I think he was. Goals are tougher to get at the highest level. from the time of the Prem. 92/93 and the following seasons to 2001 MLT scored 15, 25, 20, 7, 13, 11, 6, 3, 1, and 0 until retirement. The only other player to pass the 20 goal barrier was James Beattie who scored 23 in 02/03. ------------------------------------------------ Ron Davies scored 37 in 66/67 ..and 28 and 20 in his 3rd season. Boyer's best season was 23 goals in 79/80 Mick Channon scored 21 in 73/74, 20 in 74/75 and also 20 in 75/76 KK scored 26 (in his second season) 81/82 not forgetting Ted MacDougalls 23 goals in 76/77 and Steve Moran.......... who scored 21 in 83/84 The only other player to reach 20 since then was ..Greg Rasiak.(in CCC)

Are you a fisherman, Toomer? ..I get excited about goals too but that win v. Swindon was actually ONLY 5-1 but you're right Derek did score 4 that day, although in that same autumn period we did actually beat Shrewsbury 6-3, as well as other wins ; 5-2 v. Mansfield and 5-1 v.Coventry...so you can't be blamed for mixing the dates. (I haven't bothered to look up those games where we ONLY won by scoring 4 goals). 106 goals that season ..and we only failed to score in 4 league games all season...and 3 of those were away. Isn't history wonderful?

The Div.3 season (59/60) was 46 matches, plus that season we played 6 FA Cup games (went out in 4th round replay.) No other cup comps. in those days. Div 1 teams played 42 league games in 1966/67 (RD played in 41) We played 3 games in the League Cup - Ron scored 3 in ONE game. and 3 matches in FA Cup...Ron scored 3 in that comp.

Well, if you listened to Corteses' long interview from last week on line, NC said that ML had no direct financial control over the club, had him (NC) running it,(well he is a banker).. and hadn't even given himself a place on the Board. This type of investment (buying Saints) ws a comparatively small outlay for a man who is worth ...3 BILLION...£ / Euros / $....or any other Yen you prefer. I think he's in it for fun, and if things go wrong ..he'd replace Cortese FIRST ! As for the gesture about the banner, I can't disgree with your sentiment about charitable gifts, but it would be a TRUE reflection of fans' gratitude to ML / NC ...Why should ANY foreign investor want to buy into an English L1 side ? However, it is also only a fraction of the money LOST to bookies every week on that game and others. It's all a matter of proportion.

Inevitably, this type of comparison will be made, a few differences, but of course it was in the same division (then Div.3 ). Reeves had already been with Saints for FOUR seasons when he got the 39 goals and it was the peak of his career (then aged 25). He scored 15 in the first 11 games, (inkl. 11 in 5 games).. then scored 4 against SWINDON at The Dell in October 59. He was very consistant and only once went more than 3 games without scoring at all. In addition he hit 4, in that legendary FA Cup 5-1 win - away at Man.City. We can hope Ricky can get close to that old record, but still has a bit to go. However, all this is put into perspective when we recall, Ron Davies' classic season (1966-67) when he scored 37 in Div.1 (Prem.at that time) PLUS 6 more in Cups. Both Reeves (and hopefully Rickie) will find a place in our history books but down the page a bit from the GREAT Ron Davies.

...it would be a nice touch, his FIRST goal is well overdue, even if he does brighten up the midfield. But then again, Wembley does that sort of things in Cup Finals (even the JPT) I suppose.

I think you might re-read my original post Charlie W. I was being a little nostalgic over my time as a fan, and didn't feel I was necessarily defending AP, but I did comment that they didn't know what they were in for. (I suspect however, that AP thought that his prev.experience might have given us better start than we had.) The only plusses IMHO were that KD decided to stay, and that Lallana didn't leave. What was left was a demoralised and inadequate squad in a club only days away from bankruptcy-most of whom were replaced within the first 8 weeks. It is clear that the stop-gap measures of loan players and makeshift defenders wasn't the answer. Although NC bravely put up the money for the new buys, I don't think he expected so much, quite so soon either. Of the two clubs you mentioned, Norwich though poor last season were unlucky to go down and Charlton had a mini revival at the end but not enough to stay up. I don't think either team has had such a major overhaul to their squads, whether they cost big money, or not. Certainly, few fans can claim that AP has made too many bad buys ! My main comparison was with Lawrie Mc. who took over a team in 8th place and saw them relegated in the second half of the same season. As you will recall, his first full season we finished a miserable 13th, and the year when we won the FA Cup we were only 6th (no play-offs then.), followed by a mediochre 9th - (even with Ball, Osgood and Mac Dougall) - before we got back up to Div.1 My point is that money doesn't but success and new managers don't succeed first time around (as Ted Bates might have testified). All the talk of "gelling" and getting the " right blend of youth and experience" sounds a lot of spin but is nevertheless true. As someone who "loved to hate " Leeds (in the 1970's) I am nevertheless a little pleased that they might have some chance to redeem themselves after such a traumatic period. I only hope it doesn't take so long for Saints to get "rehabilitated " to a higher level. Whether or not AP will be the manager to do that or not, is a matter for the patient fans and a trusting Chairman.We've had our share of changing managers every season, we don't need any more of that sort of publicity. WHERE WOULD WE HAVE BEEN,(I sometimes reflect)...if we'd sacked McMenemy after that first season, and who might have replaced him if we had...and what would our club history have looked like now ? (MY original thread was purely philosophising and nostalgia). Sorry if you or others may have misinterpreted it.

IN all this exitement I kinda forgot myself...did he score 3 or only ... No No ..back to wembley. Just WHO is qualified to play at Wembley. Apparantly Thomas is now injured and Holmes, too. and with new players cuptied. So what is the squad going to look like for next Sunday...?

It's not really just about " youth " but having some experience there, too. But, I'd go along with most of the above, but loan out Forecast and keep it between Poke and Bart as no.2 keeper (for the time being). We need the likes of; Thomas, Wotton and even a fit Murty for another year or so - if only to have experienced cover in case of injury /suspensions. If a key player gets injured and we lose our formation, bringing in a kid and start losing games, it could cost us 12-15 points in a month if we have someone banned / out for a month !

that you think we ought to buy ...given the chance ? and .. bearing in mind they will have a clear-out before next season..and that NOT all have such high wages... ...and that they will have to dump fees to get some cash in a bit quick. There is of course the infamous hoodoo of having played for BOTH sides, but this is an issue over which neither club nor players have any real control. So, those of you who seen their players..are there ANY you think we might reasonably be able to have in a Saints shirt next season ?:cool:

There's no saying that Thomas was a good buy in the beginning, he was a panic buy by (Burley ?) when we had problems at the back. I don't believe he is injury prone..every player gets injuries from time to time and WT had a serious knee op. which takes time to get over. It doesn't put him in the same class as SICKNOTE. I think Thomas is a better player now than when he came, although perhaps not first choice because without him, we'd have Lancashire at CH..and likwise Wotton in the Wembley line-up. Coincidentally ? ... Wotton was an ever-present in the side when we went 7 games unbeaten and Hammond and James were out injured in the Autumn. I think it a bit short-sighted and maybe a little cruel- if we see tham bring back the silverware from Wembley and then sack them in May. With Murty out for the season, " Semi " injured and Seaboune " not ready yet" ... we still have good cover for the newer/younger players who have yet to come in.

Well CB FRY, you seem to have singled out one phrase in my original post and built a thesis on it. Few could have forseen how bad it would be from August. The expression was my assessment and not Alan Pardews words.Obviously, the remains of a team brought back from the brink of extinction and not good enough to stay in the CCC was a warning, but it needed eight league games, 5 new players and a couple of loans to get us our first league win. I don't think the worst pessimist on the site would have expected that..and even AP couldn't have anticiapted it, either. Neiher do I think that NC would have allowed Pardew to spend 3 million in the first month..and we wouldn't have got the players we have now. Only four of AP start side v. Millwall (H) are still first choice, and all 3 of the original strike force (Saga, Paterson and Rasiak) have since gone. There have been a lot of changes. Good job we still have Thomas, Perry and Wotton because they will be central to the team when we go to Wembley, whilst the new guys will be in the stands. Although its a painful reality, many seem to forget that Saints have actually EARNED 57 points this season,(only the FA's -10 points has left us where we are.) If we'd had 20 points deduction we'd be even lower - but neither Saints or Leeds, Huddf'd, MK Dons or Norwich have a divine right to win every game. Most teams get new players from time to time, whether they are cost a million or not, - is that wrong? Lambert is top scorer in the League - bad buy ? Fonte looks to be the best CH we've had in quite a few years - bad buy ? Puncheon is one of the most creative players since the millenium - bad buy ?

I don't normally find myself disagreeing with yr. viewpoints Phil, but both L1 (and partly CCC) is still down to trenchwarfare on ploughed fields, and we need tough, experienced defenders to handle that. I won't argue all your individual comments, except to say that with rare exception our most reliable and successful defenders over the many years I've followed Saints, have often been OVER 30 when they came. and stayed long after. I go back to the 1960's and have seen many reliable "old heads" see us through tough times, and so if I were AP - I'd think long and hard before deciding to plan to be without the likes of Thomas, Wotton, Jaidi and Perry for next season...or even Murty - for one more year - if he gets back to 100%. YES ! Harding is good and Seabourne is " promising " but are not yet hardened to first team football and history shows that (our) team like many others, has been full of " one season sensations" who subsequently disappear without trace. The "over 30's, who must seem like pensioners to some of our teenage fans, may not be worth the 4 -5 year contracts that some younger layers get, but they are worth their weight in gold on a season-to-season basis.

In addition to the excellent performances we have turned in so far this season some squad members have played up to 12 games more than others - due to our various cup exploits ! Maybe that has something to do with it .?

he scored ...? WOW definitely worth a place on the bench for Saturday:smt043

This season isn't over yet , the -10 was this season - not last. It will effect the outcome our our points tally whatever happens. We have, in fact WON 57 points this season...just feel glad the FA didn't find reasons to deduct 15, 20 or 30 points !

is a favourite pastime of frustrated fans ..and chairmen. Fans who faithfully attend every match they possible can, and then see a poor performance are often quick to criticise; manager, players or even referees - when their team doesn't pick up 3 points every game. Lawrie McMenemy (argueably the most successful Saints manager ever) was once quoted as saying..."as manager, you can never never win. If the team gets the points, fans say - the team played well, if they lose - it's my fault 'cos I picked them ", and McMenemy was no stranger to criticism both during and after his 13 years at the club - which started with a relegation! Success has been a rare visitor to SFC in recent decades. Seasons 1976, and 1983/4 were highpoints of the past that were rarely repeated. Enormous support in the 99 "Great Escape" season - when we JUST avoided Prem relegation, and extra boost with ONE good year with Gordon Strachan. Much sadness since, but now we seem to be on the up again. This current team has won more games than any other team in the last 26 years...and it's only March - poor performance? Building a team, like building a house isn't easier because you employ more bricklayers / or spend money on new players. It takes time to do a good job. Neither Cortese or, Pardew had any idea what they were getting into when they tried to re-float a club last August that started with -10 points. IMHO they have both done excellent jobs in their own way. Throwing money at a problem doesn't solve it either- as Roman A. has found at Chelsea, and losing patience and sacking a manager in anger was a bad decision that came home to roost for him on Wednesday night. After 50 years as a fan...I am perhaps more philosophical than some, and many olders fans have seen more change, euphoria and turmoil than many of our younger supporters can ever imagine. If patience is a virtue then it better be a quality that we need to acquire because I'm sure that even if by some miracle, we get promoted this season,some people would be criticising the manager whose team was ONLY 10th in the CCC - next season !

Between the Norwich games (when he scored both goals) and upto Tranmere, Barnard had scored 5 in 6 games. Not Bad ? Being the front man takes a lot out of you and he must have been suffering after 70 mins. Bringing on Papa Waigo (who had often scored as a sub.) was a good move, fresh legs and a new challenge for the defenders. Strikers don't score every week..in fact Lambert hasn't scored in the last 3 games and has only got 2 goals in the last 7 games, but I don't see anyone suggesting he's not upto it. Lallana has netted only once in the last 8 games (good /bad ?)

have had THEIR 9 points deducted...sad but now they know what it feels like to be honest... I don't know whether to laugh , or .....laugh ----or laugh

I don't know that we are so wrong, really. The team looks good on paper and is more or less unchanged for the last half dozen games, and two of those brought 5 goals a piece. We haven't done so badly, after winning at Norwich (their manager said they had a bad day) and also v. Leeds although a good ref. might have given the "other " goal and a pen, too. (their manager said some of his players - didn't turn up!) It isn't our Divine Right to win every game despite the fact that we want them to. There are lots of factors. There are games where we would have won - had the goal been or foot wider, or the bar had been 6 inches higher.:smt009 You can't legislate for bad refereeing, I wish we could. The Tranmere game was a farce with a penalty given that never should have been, and a better shout for us that got the "victim " Fonte - a booking for diving :mad: Admitted we are rather spoilt playing on such a good surface as SMS, and maybe we should train in the mud at Jacksons Farm in preparation for some of our away fixtures. If you considet taht what we have now is AP mark 2.team. We started with last years leftovers and a few loans, and din't do well in the first ten games...and to start 10 points worse off than everyone else didn't help - did it ? On balance we haven't had a bad season - but it's not over yet. Anyone whose read the history of the 1948/49 season will know that anything is possible and it's not over till the fat referee has blown the final whistle in the last game. I'm a bit disappointed but not down-hearted, there are lost of positives so far this year.

I wasn't sure myself who was OOC but I think I'd go along with your suggestions.