david in sweden

Mission statement (!) ......I've heard dozens of those in the business world.. Can you give us a draft suggestion that Ralph might use?

disagree? ... disagree?... what's to disagree with?. A 5 year plan to get us from the bottom of L1 back upto the Prem. OK That was achieved...... in less than 5 . European football in the following 5 years...... well admittedly, it was short lived, but we made it to the Europa League---but I don't recall any promise to win the Champions League within 5 years. You're just upset and disappointed ...like the rest of us......and that bit about half the first team being 50% Academy graduates? Just now ....Koeman's right ....There's hardly two of the present U21 side that could even get into the first team, let alone command a regular place. Who do you blame for that?

We all like to think that the Academy wil produce a new Walcott, Bale or Shaw every season, but it 'aint gonna happen ! Should we criticise Ronald Koeman for telling the truth as he sees it ?....Certainly not !.....or would you rather he came out with a load of bu**sh*t PR quotes. It's no-one's fault, we give then a chance and either they're good enough ....or they're not. ...... we should publish the line above every day until that sinks in ....

I think I agree with most of that EXCEPT.....(I don't know about the rest of you, but personally).... I don't rate Townsend as being even " half decent". He can't get in Tottenham's start side and they are (reputedly) asking £10 million for him, and goodness knows what his salary must be? His entire reputation has been built on a good " half season" - and a few England outings when Roy had an injury crisis - where he scored a couple of goals.

or ....he's facing two more games in the next 6 days....Midfielders have more to do than any other position on the pitch.

Why is it "a problem? ". Unlike midfield players, most defenders have less to do and are rarely subbed. except for a poor display.... .or a serious injury. It's not everyone that can run for 90 minutes. especially midfielders like Clasie. Look at a few other Prem. games and see it's often the midfielders who get subbed first. We have surely seen that from those years with Lallana and even Steven Davis, so why do people continue to bleat about substitutions after 60/70 mins.. Our best midfielder (Schneiderlin?) was with the club for 7 years, and was " Saints Fit ". Clasie didn't even get a proper "pre-season " and has been out twice through freak injuries. A fresh pair of legs can make all the difference.

I played with my grandchildren yesterday..more satisfying than see the result from SMS......

.......and Mayuka? , and Guly? and Papa Waigo? do you remember them also ? Cortese did a good job at re-organising the club's admionistration.....but he should have left buying new players to a " football person " who knew the game, instead of being influenced to spend millions on the above from his Swiss / Italian " friends " ......who made him offers he never refused. As for the successes, the bulk of the team that got us from L1 and back up to the Prem. were bought for " peanuts " in the UK ....compared with the millions he spent in Italy. .

this is the eternal problem - isn't it? I thought Mourinho was crazy when he sold Cech....especially to Arsenal. Now look at the league table. Courtois got injured and that didn't help their defence. The likes of Matt Targett come in (when selected) and DAJFU . Bertrand is one of the most consistant players we have a.t.m....and I hope he will continue to do so, but ....an injury to him?....when Targett is out on loan?....the quick fix is Yoshida ...or Martina....doesn't sound so enthralling - does it? We all know "The Southampton Way" is bringing on youngsters, but how many of us were in school (50 years ago for me)..with people who got an "A" in every subject ? They were very few and far between. Of course, the youngsters who comes in plays their socks off for a game or two....but consistancy is the name of the game, and a lad who comes in maybe this week's hero, but in the long term you can't " experiment " all the time... at least not whilst we're losing points like water. In the last couple of months, we've created (total) more chances than the opponents have, but won only once. For all the criticism of midfielders, at least we created chances and aside from the obvious defensive problems were there,....but our best two U21 prospects were out on loan. Even before his injury Pelle was off-form, and Mane hasn't scored in his last 9 Prem. games....and so all the blame falls on Shane Long ...mainly because we don't have any other alternative as Gallagher and Isgrove - were both out on loan. Ryan Seager is a good prospect, but I don't see him as a replacement for either of the other two, as he is more of a "goal-poacher " playing off a big striker... than he is an out-and-out striker. Les Reed said that we often "pick up the lads with potential - that other clubs reject " but he truth is that there is often a good reason why they were rejected. They may have be promising at U18 / U21 level, but they seldom progress up to " the man's level in the Prem." We suffer from the same problem that other Prem. clubs suffer, mainly that for every promising youngster ...a place on the M.U. / Arsenal bench at 100K /week is better than occasional outing in our first team. Koeman knows this - and he is right, and he will continue to be right until the " Shaw, or Chambers " that comes along proves himself better than Bertrand or Cedric.

expecting both managers to try out a few of their regular " bench players "......maybe Juanmi (?)....but certainly Reed and (hopefully) Seager, too. Maybe Targett? Players I don't want to see starting this game: Caulker, Ramirez and Yoshida.

he (sort of ) admits that he's expecting a few more games before he returns to the Prem.......but still good to see him back. Hope there is no adverse reaction to his injury.........

has a bit of pace, (though not upto Shane Long standard), but shows good control and some nice touches, but some of those goals..especially the early ones in the video are down to terrible goalkeeping errors ....Of course we don't know what his current form is like?..I'm not overimpressed.... .....AND he looks a bit heavy around the waistline for his height ...I should know !

the main difference being ...that Man U have an enormous income that can afford a few mistakes of that dimension, but at a cost of £21 million ( for Gaston) and " goodness knows how-much" for the Osvaldo pay-off......what might we have done with the extra £40 million?..... if it had been well-spent in the first place.

are we expecting TOO much from the Academy? going back 10 years....the following players have come through our Academy sides and progressed to be good enough play Premier League. (though not all for us ) Walcott, Bale, Surman, Dyer, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw, Lallana, Chambers, JWP. Targett.(I won't count Schneiderlin, but he came aged 18..and stayed 7 years). Are there any other clubs who have produced so much teenage talent that has graduated to the highest level ? I think probably not. Along the way there are probably a dozen more who've had a few games between them, but at the rate of 10 players in 10 years ...should we really expect so many more?

I agree MLG, but there are rather a lot of ....IF's ...there. Anyway - Every fan at SMS would have chosen Shaw in front of Fox, it was a no-brainer. Not because Shaw was so great, but Fox was putting in appauling performances. ALSO.... I'm very tired of hearing (other) contributors praising Pochettino for bringing on " so many young players ". Shaw in particular had played about 12 games (under Nigel Adkins) and was the accepted LB choice before Poch arrived. Shaw was playing well and took his chance. Clyne was the established RB and was injured in pre-season, the placing of Chambers at RB was a chance measure (there was no reserve as Butterfield had left by then) The entire "Sam Gallagher saga" came about purely because (1) Osvaldo had been suspended after his fisticuffs with Fonte (2) Lambert was off form and Jay Rod was injured at Man City......Pochettino had no other choice but to use Sam Gallagher, who was the only other striker at the club... and the transfer window was closed. 18 of his Gallagher's 20 apps. were substituitions late on in games, and the one Prem. goal he scored was in the 97th minute of a game we had already won. Koeman used just as many U21 players as Pochettino had done, but like MP he did so because of injury crises, and not because of some desire to bring on young players.

yes this was a great goal..but it was only one. How many times have people in general been "overimpressed " by one super goal that was never repeated. Many fans will spend the next season or two expecting Coco Martina to repeat his effort against Arsenal, and criticising him - when he doesn't. It may never happen. David Beckham (not my favourite player btw) ....did at least have the ability to score " unbelievable goals " and not just once or twice either. Many on here are being very shortsighted and a bit unfair to Sam Gallagher. He's still quite young, and played much ofhis best football last season, halfway through this season - he's more or less back to square one. Four months of " loan " without any regular game time. Give him another 18 months before we start making judgements about being " good enough for Prem./or not going to make it".

AGREED. The present crop (at U21) ..are OK for their age group, but very few of them could come near holding down a place in the first team. In the present situation.....one or two might get game time...in an injury crisis....but no more. Koeman nows what he wants......and as someone who has nowhere near his experience in the game ....I don't disagree from what I've seen. The idea that we have another Bale or Shaw lurking, unnoticed in the U21 .......is a total fallacy. At present ... there's no-one good enough for Prem level football, and taking more chances by throwing them in now in a vain attempt to regain form isn't going to work. Targett, Reed and hopefully Seager may get game time now and again, and that's positive, but there aren't many " hidden treasures " that are being ignored.

and of course they do. Our main problem seems to be that " ambition " says we should be top four / six ..(whatever position you like), but those "big" clubs can spend money like there's no tomorrow.... and if they buy a dud ...now and again...it doesn't matter so much. It's no great loss to them. **it happens. Tottenham squandered their profit from the Bale transfer ..and a bit more ....on seven players who for the most part were over-priced failures. I think only two are left and Spurs recouped only about half their original outlay in offloading the rest to other clubs. Our problem FFP rules etc,....means that a £12 million signing (say on a 4 year contract) can mean a £20 million commitment, and both Gaston and Osvaldo were only the tip of the iceberg. Other signings like Papa Waigo, Guly, and Mayuka all cost considerably more than those domestic players we signed to make up the numbers, and succeed in getting us back to the Prem. Of course you can't predict the outcome of any new signing, and if ...example a player like Martina (cost £1 million), is not on the same scale as Gaston / Osvaldo - if he doesn't settle / make the grade. The real problem is our perception of players who ..whilst playing well in another side, in another country....are sure to be even better when they come to play in the Prem. WRONG ! Buying foreign players is a huge risk, unless they have a good record and aproven background -even as a youth player. I really hope that we learn the lesson, because another couple of " Gaston's or Osvaldo's " will tie up our capital and transfer funds, whilst the most that they contribute to the team.... is an extra number in a 5-a-side kickabout at Staplewood.

AND going back to my post #22 ..let's not forget our former Italian / Swiss chairman...also made a real killing in signing ..none other than Emanuel Mayuka from the Swiss club Young Boys. (that was supposedly a £3 million deal).... and a 5 year contract. What a great tip that was Nicola. I wonder what the pay-off we made on that one was when he left? Someone can do the maths on the £cost per game, as Mayuka appeared in only 16 games (most as sub.) and even at £20K /week he would have cost us another £5 mill. if he was paid anywhere near £30K /week ......that would be almost £8 million more that deal cost us. ....and so Mayuka became yet another player who failed to convince three Saints managers.... that he was worth a regular place in the Saints starting line-up. Meantime ...aside from those " big money signings"; like Lambert and Fonte (£1 million each), most of the team that won the Championship was composed of talent found in the English leagues...... for an average of around £250K per player. Daft I call it !

you mean like ......Papa Waigo signed from Fiorentina ? ...............or .......Guly do Prado who previously had played for Cesena?....... neither of whom really made it as a top striker.....did they? ...thank goodness that Alan Pardew finally persuaded Cortese to part with that £1 million to sign Rickie Lambert......

at this stage of the proceedings - even if he scores a hat-trick on Saturday - I will still ask myself WHY .... he was ignored by three successive Saints managers?

....doesn't it strike you as a bit strange.... ....that many signings under Cortese's time came from HIS contacts in Italy, and this from a man who confessed he knew nothing about running a football club? .

1) .....no-one ever suggested that Cortese knew anything about football in the first place, although it was a wise decision by Marcus Liebherr to put someone in charge who understood finance and organisation, but from various reports, interviews etc, one gets the impression that working for him was either " my way, or the highway " and it's difficult to know whether or not his successive buys / loans from Italy had more influence on signings than the " Committee " who presumably knew more about the English game. Ultimately, for better or worse....he carries the can and OK's deals because he signed the cheques. I think Cortese was pandering to Pochettino (in allowing him to buy Osvaldo), who over-estimated his own capacity to control Osvaldo who really was " a loose cannon ". 2) Starting from square one, Alan Pardew was inspired signing,(as were his signings) ..Fonte, Puncheon and Lambert in particular., but a Sky interview with Pardew (after he was sacked) was revealing when he said that Cortese has asked him..." do you really want to spend £1 million on a 27 year old striker " (Lambert). In the end, Cortese (for whatever reason) lost patience with Pardew and sacked him. No reason has ever been admitted but perhaps it's covered by the 50 year rule? Pardew has since proven his capacity to do well as a manager in the Prem. The main arguement that most of us have on this subject is the lack of the return for the huge sums of money involved in the two signings, but it's interesting to note that all the players you mentioned above together cost about the same.... as just one of the " rejects " that we are discussing. If..Lambert, Fonte, Rodriguez, Davis or Clyne had been a waste of money -we'd have put it down to bad luck. Both the Gaston and Osvaldo deals showed bad judgement.

1) ....even I wasn't suggesting they played for nothing, but when actual salaries are clouded in mystery, it can come as a nasty surprise when you read the bottom line. 2)....my underlying point on this was not my surprise, but wondering about the eventual loss that will be entailed in the even more catastrophic Osvaldo deal. With Pochettino already having left the club he will, naturally enough, avoid the fall-out from what would seem to have been his monumental error of judgement. I can't believe that Dani Osvaldo was topping any list that may have existed on the Black Box at the time.

The Echo has run an article on " the actual cost " of having Gaston Ramirez on the books .....since 2012. Aside from the £12 million fee....it seems that the cost of that plus his salary (estimated at £60K / week) is around....wait for it... £21 million. This has been a discussion point with a number of us on here for some time, and we didn't need a calculator to figure out the final cost of this fiasco. Hopefully, we may be able to move him on in the January window......if not, it's another 60K /week until June. .....that's only about £1.5 million...btw. At least .after he does leave we may be able to breathe a sigh of relief .....if only until someone does the same calculation on the Dani Osvaldo deal. Both of these catastrophes came during Nicola Cortese's watch, so whatever good we claim he did....these two deals go on the minus side of the accounts. When we ask ourselves if a future signing may be worth the fee, we also need to take account of the longer term cost of employing misfits like these two.