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Maybe better if he does stay out the season. There's still a lot of distance between L2 and the Prem. but the " game time" experience will be a greater benefit in the long run. IF ... Coco Martina's input on Saturday wasn't just a flash in the pan, then we may have solved the RB problem....(as long as fans don't expect a goal every game).

worth? ..worth ?.. it's not about value, but how much you can get from the millionaire owners who are happy to throw money at their problems. We've learnt that much in the last year or two......

maybe not cynical ..but if he ever wanted a move to Arsenal, then Wenger couldn't have ignored his performance on Saturday. Wenger suggested that our " physical play " had ruined his delicate "passing game", but be sure if VW went to Arsenal... he'd want him to play exactly the same way. Every team needs a " hard man " and Arsenal haven't had anyone like that since Tony Adams retired.

well that's one bit of good news...but we still have Jay Rod and Gardos to get fit ...but now we have the prospect of being without Pelle and Cedric for a few more weeks.

[quote=ScepticalStan;2286624 He had a good game today but I wouldn't go too nuts! Needs 10+ goals in a season before he matches up to the £12 million price tag. Great job today though. Pace and aggression and some solid finishing as well at last. ... a strange statement to make?..... when we haven't even reached the half way point in the season yet. Mind you, there will be people who .... if /when he passes the 10 goal mark....will say he really ought to get more as we paid so much for him... but they're the same people who tell us that the even-more catastrophic signings like Gaston and Osvaldo, really were good players who were never given a chance...

I think many foreign players take time to adjust to the pace of the Prem. and the fact that Clasie was out of action with two months with (new) injuries, doesn't indicate he's " injury-prone ", but is certainly suffering from the lack of " a good pre-season ". As a midfileder, he's required to be " in the action " more than the average player. Coming back from any injury doesn't mean they can pick up where they left off..as we will undoubtedly see when JayRod (eventually) returns. I always recall Alan Shearer's famous comment.." there's a lot of difference between ....being able to play, and being... "match-fit"

there always seems to be some degree of criticism from fans when midfielders are subbed late on in a game and people say ....they aren't fit or have no stamina. I feel that this is an unfair comment when you consider the amount of running they can actually get through in " a high energy " game. Some TV channels put up stats. on the screen showing various players input during a game, and it's not so unusual to see that some midfielders (especially) can clock upto 10,000 metres in a game. Other team members do not come anywhere near those stats. as they are rarely so involved for such concentrated periods. Regardless of how involved they may be, it demands quite a shift when you consider that they are also required to; withstand bodily challenges, tackle, sprint, head and kick the ball at numerous times in a game. Mo Farah wins gold medals when he runs 10,000 met. and doesn't do any of these " other activities ". The stamina required to play up to Prem. League standard on a regular basis really is a challenge to fitness and energy levels, and this should really be taken into consideration when some people are so quick to come out with comments like .." not being able to last 90 minutes."

A point that I've made on previous occasions. Shane Long didn't decide on his own transfer fee. After signing Pellé (who to be fair was an unknown quantity) we needed back-up for him after Lambert's departure. That was a sensible and necessary measure to ensure we had cover. That Pelle had such success, kept Long out of the start side, but he still made good sub.apps. The fact we paid over the odds, was a boardroom decision in making Hull an offer they couldn't refuse, as they were in desperate financial problems at the time. There is no way anyone should attach guilt to Long for the size of the fee. His personal terms/salary were agreed between him and SFC. The fee between the two clubs. £12 million may seem high to some people, but we had already mis-spent more on the catastrophic signings of Gaston and Osvaldo...(who incidentally were purchased when we had " another Board and another Chairman ). Based on that, one might argue that Shane Long has already provided better value than they did. My only real criticism of Koeman might be that he persisted with Pellé for too long (last season), when it was patently obvious that Pelle had been " found out " by opposing defences, and that he hit the woodwork more often than he scored, and that Koeman failed to implement a " Plan B " much sooner. At last, RK was forced to do so (on Saturday) because of Pellé absence, and we can hope that the result was the beginning of a new dawn.... and not a glorious sunset.

were as a tribute to Don Howe, former Arsenal /England man who died during the week. A fairly established gesture to former players, I would have thought .

Careful now....you need to have a watertight arguement on here if you start quoting stats. at people (I know)......however, I had to look back to find this post, but ..in some statistical analyses I've seen...." an assist " - (btw...you have to argue with some contributors on here what actually constitutes ...an assist) "an assist " is valued 0,5 (points) in stats. and a goal as 1 point. This being the case, Long's stats. would be considerably better than Tadic's using that formula.

except if it's a "super buy "..like Gaston Ramirez or Dani Osvaldo - you mean?

saw some photos of them on one site (?) ....training hard ....on Christmas Eve (!)

well.stats. disprove that one Roger... at Reading, ShLong scored 9, 9 and 25 in his last 3 seasons. At WBA.... he scored 8 and 11 in his first 2 seasons..and At Hull he scored 4 ..in only 15 games. He's really not as bad as you make out..especially as he's not a front line striker in the traditional mould.

well said !

there are a number of people on here who are so quick to condemn new players who don't fit in the first 45 minutes, and so it has been for (the sub.) ....Cuco Martina. I won't name the person who, last October...branded Sadio Mane as worse than Ali Dia...but I'm glad for Martina's sake that he made an impression when given the chance. I haven't looked at his stats. and maybe he didn't win every tackle or interception, but at the end of the day ....no-one scored due to an error he made (if any). Wenger is always quick to explain away the referee's mistakes .and he did so with 3 of our goals, but in the end Arsene...we scored at least one more than you. For spectacular efforts Cuco's goal rates with Clyne's League Cup goal (v Arsenal)... and the legendary " Golac goal " at The Dell all those years ago. for those of us who like stats. the performance was enhanced by the fact that despite having the lowest possession stats.so far this season (35%) ...we had 14 shots v. 7 ...and of 5 on the target - we scored 4 of them. Tadic was extremely unlucky...(shot saved by Cech) when was the last time he conceded 4 (?)....and Long hit the post. An outstanding display, and good to see " a bit of muscle in midfield "..and Long was like an angry wasp to the Arsenal defenders. They must hate coming to SMS.

a few games rested will get his goal thirst back ..... meantime 4-0 ......whooopeeee:toppa:

all those critics of Martina are right. Just look at tonight.....Koeman gives him a start ...and he takes nearly 20 mins to score a "lucky goal " ....total waste of money.

how right you are Saint Charlie. Shane Long is a total waste of space. I mean he only scored twice, hit the post and got himself booked as well....sell him now !

A lot of us must be disappointed in JWP's attempts, but not every free kick he takes is a shot on goal......he delivers well into the box, but there's no-one there to attack the ball and many goalies seem just take it with ease. Aside from the other complaints, I always felt that criticism of Rory Delap's long throws (not leading to goals) was more than a bit unfair. After he moved to Stoke, it became a fearful mode of attack and he had players who met the ball when it came in and their strikers who scored from quite a few efforts.

...or wiping your tears away with them ...?

I accept your viewpoint on Sam's career Duncan, but tbf...when Pochettino put Sam on as sub. in the 4th round FA Cup 2013.. he thankfully scored a good goal. With Lambert injured, Sam then started the next fixture 2-2 home v. Arsenal, but was first to be subbed. He then made 6 more sub.apps before finally scoring a 97th min. goal - (in a game we had already won - Norwich 4-2). Sam was sub. three times more (when JayRod got injured, and the following game when Gaston went off injured). .......In the final 4 games that season, he started twice and came on twice - without scoring again. His good form in the U21's was never replicated at the higher level. Whatever we say was " Pochettino's admiration for Sam", in reality MP was basically forced to play Sam as he had no other options with Lambert as the only fit striker. Regardless of " some other comments on here", I think that Koeman's 7th place, was a far greater achievement than MP's 8th place ....simply because Koeman's side lacked FIVE of the players that Pochettino had de facto "inherited" from Nigel Adkins, (some of whom had played together for 2-3 seasons prior to MP's arrival). Having said that, I really hope that Sam returns from what has become a wasted 5 months loan fiasco, and that we never loan anyone to MK Dons again (at least not with their present manager). With almost zero game time this season, he is almost back to square one, and unless we see a goal surge from him after the New Year, he may not get another first team chance this season. The U21 fixture list is rather sparse until the beginning of February, and so he may have few chances to play.

Christmas Greetings from a sunny, but SNOW-LESS Stockholm. Daytime temp. about the same as London

Agree with most of that FF, but tbf..Pochettino inherited a fairly stable side and just upped the tempo, and we didn't see any real success until the following season. The idea that he "discovered" all our young successful players is bit of a fallacy, which the media has exploited since the success of Kane and Mason at Spurs, who had both had several good seasons out on loan with lower league sides, prior to his arrival, and it was their success that helped him keep his job. Had MP persisted with those " appauling players " signed in the wake of the Bale transfer legacy, he'd have been sacked by Christmas last year. Luke Shaw had already played a dozen first team games before MP arrived. Preferring him over Fox was surely a no-brainer, and JWP was already an Adkins squad player. MP bought in Wanyama and Lovren (or maybe the Black Box did the job for him), but Cortese's pandering to him (in buying Osvaldo) must go down as one of the worst (and most expensive) transfer disasters in many a year. (I'd wager that Osvaldo wasn't a leading name in the Black Box's evaluations ). As with other managers, MP only fielded U21 players in Cup games, but his use of the likes of Reed and Gallagher was very restricted, and often forced on by injuries. Using Chambers (at RB) was an example of a player forced into action (by Clyne's pre-season injury) when CC wasn't even a regular choice for the U21 side. MP's use of those same inexperienced players in the vital Sunderland Cup match (that we lost) was gross negligence when we were probably in sight of a Cup Final place. The "success" of those players (who eventually left) was more a reflection of the overall team performance (in breaking into Prem's Top 10) than any individual's progress. It was Pochettino's desertion that led to us losing half the side in one summer, but to his credit Koeman did very well last season, but the effects of losing what was .... (effectively 7 established names in less than 2 years)...has taken it's obvious toll. Of those who left, Schneiderlin and Clyne were (argueably) the best of the bunch. Without Forster, and the continued absence of Jay Rod and a "misfiring Pellé and Mané " has shown the shortcomings in attack. My only criticism is that, although talented players, our midfield choices are all too lightweight against the " more physical " Prem sides, and Wanyama isn't performing anywhere near last season's level.

I've watched highlights of most U21/U18 games on You Tube and.... tbf...I can't see too many rising stars in the current crop of youngsters. Whilst they may look good to their trainers, it doesn't follow that they can make the transition to Prem.football and hold a place-especially in a team struggling for results. Good for their age.. .maybe, but it doesn't follow that we will "discover" another; Bale, Shaw or Oxlade-Chamberlain every season. It just won't happen. Most of these lads maybe able to hold down a place in an L1 side, but they're still a long way from Prem. standard...whatever Hunter / Reed may think. Finally, most of those named who were successes came into a stable team, and blended in well, but it's not the same as (like current side) where we've lost half-a-team inside a year and still don't have a stable midfield set-up. Maybe OK for the odd game, but we have no-one who can come into the side and make the difference. Targett is the closest to a regular place, but there no way he's better than Bertrand if both are fully fit. I'd go with Koeman. We need changes, but unless there is someone " really outstanding ", we must find (buy) other more experienced alternatives ASAP.

well, yes ..that's all very nice if he's "one for the future "..... but right now we need someone to challenge Pelle for the front spot......