Nineteen Canteen

No wonder Fulthorpe attracted Leon's attention they obviously talked the same game. Did he write Crouch's programme notes do we know? I'm not surprised Leon was ttally frustrated I'm sure many of us felt the same everytime Leon mentioned investment was 3,6,9 months away. I just hope Leon never plays cards.

Yes x2, in fact I would buy an extra ticket provided the prices in the March madness offer were the same and interest free credit was provided although that may be available courtesy of the BoE by then. Supported this team all my life through thick and thin and in times of personal difficulty and hardship and I am not going to stop now despite what the rabid majority think on here. I'll take up playing the violin whilst some of you try and throw a few women off the lifeboats. I hope this was helpful.

Who knows but Mary is. All hindsight is 20/20 and Corbett, Crouch and Trant have it in abundance and a pity they didn't take their roles at the club with a little less myopic foresight. The 3 wise monkeys who are simply out to curry favour but have a plan as fanciful as those of the protesters on Saturday. Is Mary going to lead the whip round? If so expect her to be knocking at your neighbours door asking them to persuade you to make a contribution. It's bad enough listening to Crouch's wounded 'I could have' soldier act so I can't listen to the feed St Andrew has provided but I'm guessing she wasn't exactly subjected to a challenging line of questioning by Dumb and Dumber. Question's like, why speak out now Mary? What did you do with your status whilst at the club Mary? What do you understand by the term due diligence Mary? Mary Corbett is a fan, Leon Crouch is a fan but they have as much right or expertise to run this club than many of the fans on this forum. Crouch's offer of £2m in football terms amounts to no more than the average fan ofering £200 and about as useful and frankly is just an empty and puerile gesture as this club want fail on the lack of £2m or £6m at its disposal but more with its long term outlook and supporter loyalty that is based in the real world. In fact apart from her name being synonymous with the club's history courtesy of her father that does not necessarily bestow the qualities needed to get us out of the mire. IMO her apparent failure in her previous duties makes her an irrelevance to comment on anything related to the club unless we can probe about her part in this sorry mess. All this backbiting and protest it is all so counterproductive because ultimately the unwitting are either providing a platform for individuals petty and personal agendas, Duncan, or actually aideing and abetting the downfall of their own club. Thankfully there is still a lot of middle ground supporters out there, other than 401 full members on this site, who simply want to support the team and willing to back Lowe until an obviously better alternative comes forward. Even on a thread in the lounge today one supporter actually said he still believes the board and the team will meet our survival goal this season but didn't post on the main sight for fear of the abuse. How sad is that? Bullying your own fans for having a different view than your own. The good news is I believe fans like that still far outweigh those intent on protest without any plan beyond get Lowe out. Keep it up because the lack of acknowledgement you are getting from the club shows IMO how resolved they are to focus on turning this around even if it means dropping into League 1 for a season. Not a very savoury prospect but alot more wholesome than the known alternatives. Don't underestimate the resolve this board has and I fully expect it to get worse before it gets better but with the likes of Crouch and Corbett it will simply be a case of ignoring the iceberg and lots of fan friendly rhetoroic. I'm still just a very busy fan and for the record again I am not Lowe, Marland or work in the PR industry. I'm just a realist willing to put up with the abuse in the interest of balance and democracy. Interesting that the person nearest in nailing me so to speak is a fellow realist and certainly not one of the rabid serial abusers in the Lowe out camp who are in danger of proving the existence of the Lunatic Fringe with their idiotic theories on me. Most of you seriously need to focus on the points I raise as oppose to theorising about my identity but perhaps you do that to avoid looking at the reality. I'm just a fan and a ST holder and just as likely to sit next to you as anyone else. In fact I know I do and I listen to his clueless woes with a keen interest letting him set in concrete my own opinions. Yet still we get on and enjoy the games together but if I told him that Lowe is the best man at the moment I would ruin that comaradie and its largely down to pure prejudice in many cases. Before I go, there was some confusion over my post last night when I said I don't give a sh1t. As usual this was taken out of context and I was not for one minute refering to the club but to those who are stupid enough to support the so called marching out protest. Do your thing the team and the truly faithful of us will cope without you the best we can. I would love to join this forum as a full member but refuse to use Paypal so despite my offers of sending Baj a fiver in the post its fallen on deaf ears and they have failed to acknowledged two email requests. Draw your own conclusions. Good night

Sorry you don't love the club if you deliberately set out to damage it which this action will achieve if you get significant support. Then what administration -10 points, a car boot sale, a roundabout of managers and players and directors that will make the last 3 years look like stability. Look no further than Luton if you want to see what fan action can do or follow the the example of fans at club's like Charlton, Derby, Leicester or Norwich, to name just a few. You don't even know what you are protesting against. If it's Lowe why have you waited so long? So it must be the team or the lack of investment so perhaps the last thing you want to be doing is taking away more money that our fickle fans have taken with them because they can't get a diet of premiership Football week in week out. Unite and support through the hard times or divide and fall, have it your way, i really don't give a sh1t.

I would never support any derivative of Southampton FC as you would be standing on some open terraces with the numpties who through their protestations helped bring the club down. Leave them to it as it would never be the same again. I would probably support a local team Basingstoke, Aldershot or Salisbury although I have always followed Charlton as I lived in Blackheath for many years and went to a few games and I have family in the area. Lets hope it never comes to that so protest outside all you like but keep going and keep supporting as this is one prohecy even Crouch dare not mention and it coudl happen under his watch which would be sweet justice for his after timing and churlishness.

Never, why press the self destruct button when it could lead to Crouch taking control or worse administration. What exactly are you protesting about, if Lowe is so hated why didn't you organise something back in August. Unless there is a concrete plan to install an independent and unifying CEO assuming no investor is forthcoming, kicking Lowe out or strangling the club's finances even futher is sheer folly and with Crouch we'll be out of the frying pan into the fire. Crouch want's to make the footballing decisions? Are they any better than Lowe's when you average them out over the time he was in charge v. Lowe, Dodd and Gorman, Vincent Pericard??? + a few others long since forgotten. That game was there for the taking tonight and you can't blame Lowe or Wotte for the spurned chances, getting caught in possession, trying to take one player to many etc etc. The players were highly culpable tonight and if Crouch had been sitting in the hot seat the result would have still been the same. Continuity until there is a change we can actually support. I'll say one thing though perhaps Pearson was right about Lallana.

Pearson's downfall was that he didn't mix youth into a demoralised squad enough and therefore the evidence suggested he was as big a risk as JP and would have pushed to keep players we could not afford. Warnock showed at Palace last season how you can motivate under-performing senior players by bringing in young players to take their place but Pearson did not choose to play that card and that cost him his job more than anything else IMO.

Absolutley spot on and Pearsosn showed little evidence of utilising the pool of youth talent he had available to him and from memory I think he only used lallana and Gillett in bit part roles and Lallana when it was nearly too late and Surman at left back was as bizarre a mangerial decision as any of Burley's or JP's strangest. Richard Wright saved this club and Pearson did not get him because he thought we were weak in the goalkeeping front he got him when he was forced to because of injuries to all 3 of our keepers. Had that freak event not occured and freak is the only way to describe it, would Pearson have saved us? No, because Wright for some reason (he hasn't repeated it at Ipswich this season) was simply world class and events outside Pearson's control or influence led to him coming to the club. We were very lucky just like JP early on this season was very unlucky with some results. Finally, Pearson is doing well at leicester but he has financial backing and the Leicester fans have kept the faith if we get relegated our crowds will fall below 10,000 IMO and with a fanbase as fickle and unsupportive as that we deserve all we get at times. We survived and yet Leicester a team of comparable size and many other teams in their area demanding the attention of the football going public it is ironic our gates plummet whilst theirs remain strong. In hindsight perhaps Crouch and Pearson's biggest crime was to somewhat fortuitously keep us up and prolong the agony for all of us. Relegation last year would have been the end imo and we would be in administartion and who knows would be in charge but we woudln't now have this ridiculously and shabby in fighting and bad mouthing of everyone trying to save this club how they see fit. Good post Warwick but facts are there to be twisted and manipulated for some.

Hypo, Crouch is guilty of bigging himself and his policies as much as Lowe or any other person in high office - it kind of goes with the territory. We only need to look at Crouch's short reign to find many examples of how he delivered news with unsubstantiated fanfares. Dodd and Gorman were the best for the club and we still had top 6 as our aim at the time according to Crouch. Burley neglected the defence that I'm informed even the likes of Alpine Saint identified in the close season and yet Crouch was right behind Burley until the Scottish FA did the job Crouch should have done as soon as he took on the role and remove Burley from the club as he like JP had plainly lost sight of what he trying to achieve and resources available. Crouch's problem is he listens to the fans to much and communicates hope and promises that he cannot deliver. Last January we were told no players would leave the club for financial reasons then goodbye Rasiak and Skacel at the eleventh hour and Crouch didn't come out and communicate the bad news then did he? No he left to Hoos, so both Crouch and Lowe can hide when it suits them. How long did Crouch keep informing us that investment would be forthcoming and he forgot that after a while if he dangled the carrot to much the abused donkey would get wise and give up. Crouch had some good ideas but he didn't act on them and his biggest crime IMO was that like all us fans he was largely deluded as to what we were capable off and the more level headed would not have assessed our chances last January as the play offs. Crouch is all talk and Lowe whether we like it or not is less talk and more do. Admittedly he has made some mistakes but unless you have a plan in the first place and act on it you don't have a plan that can go wrong and Wotte so far looks like a decent Plan B along with bringing Svensson into the coaching role, one of the most decent blokes ever to pull on a Saints shirt and for that reason alone we should be more supportive of the entire regime. Would Pearson have bought in Svennson to his set up given the way he treated Dodd reducing him to nothing more than a drinks dispenser. In the absence of significant investment, £2m or £6m isn't going to help much beyond this season so it remains we have two options Crouch or Lowe. I am not a plant a Lowe Luvvie or even Lord Marland (Idiots who suggest that have a serious problem with reality btw) I am simply a fan who fwiw feels we are better of with Lowe at the helm avoiding administration and getting us out of this hole and if that means relegation so be it, just like last year but this time we will go down with a plan to rebuild and come back as oppose to simply waiting and hoping tomorrow is not another false dawn with regard to investors or we send non-executives directors out to millionaires playgrounds to hassle the neighbours/friends of potential suitors. If we look that desperate we will get shafted and I trust Lowe to act in the club's best interests as I'm sure Crouch would but IMO he simply wouldn't be as good or would be even worse depending whether you see your glass as half full or half empty. Lets face it their petulant behaviour at the AGM doesn't make you proud to be a Saint when Chairman and ex-chairman act like something out of Tom Brown's Schooldays but just like Brown or Cameron we are not exactly spoilt for choice but we need someone and for nothing else I admire Lowe for having the balls to come back. That's the problem with Lowe out protests, if it means Crouch is back in, as he didn't have fan wide support either. De-personalise the protest and campaign for radical change then I think you may have more fans onside but not before you have a plan as to how that chnage will look and be implemented. The focus is wrong and the Japanese will tell you that for any successful task, project or demonstration 95% of that success is in the planning and talk is cheap. Its all about personal choice and both sides need to respect each other but parading emotive banners like the lady displaying her banner - Tradegy, OAP gives up season ticket after 40 years. Seriously, what is tragic about that apart from the fact she has let her blind prejudice and ill considered thoughts about the future cloud her judgement. She has exercised her freedom of choice under her own free will not to renew her season ticket, nothing tragic about that, unless she has been forced to financially because of the rise in fuel costs the cold snap and decreasing value of her pension and return on investments then that is tragic. I appreciate I have gone somewhat off topic but for some reason I am not wanted as a full member and my offer of a fiver has been turned down as I do not wish to open a Paypal account because of the risk of fraud that someone in my family very nearly got caught. So I'm afraid I have to hijack threads to cover what i want to say because of my limited posts. Ultimately, though why I won't join the anti-Lowe lobby is why did these protests not start either last May or at the first game of the season. If you hate him so much and he is so divisive why did you let him back in your front door so easily? Are you not guilty of after timing like Crouch and now its a struggle (it was always going to be and we were told that) you want to knee jerk against somebody who rightly or wrongly is doing the best with what he has at his disposal and sticking to his plan to survive in the CCC and avoid administration. Have we failed yet? Stop the panic and stop wasting energy and back this club like true supporters.

Sorry Gemmel did I miss something or did this walk actually achieve anything? Several hundred walkers, maximum of 7.5% of the Saints fans at the game but probably less than 5% in reality. At 1pm I understand the queues in Pret et Manger were bigger. So you all had an enjoyable walk to the ground but unlike 3 years ago you have no alternative plan and even if you did unless it rid the club of all the directors most fans who occupy the middle ground still recognise that Lowe is the best placed person to manage this club for the time being as Crouch was a disaster and an after timer and false prophet. Still perhaps in the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king. Any celebrities come out and tarnish their image today in support? Was Crouch there? Corbett? (Perhaps she didn't come out of Primark in time, just loving those bargains for her next trip round the South of France)

Well done Duncan, pity it took a 16 year old to organise a demo when you and your little band of 6 (Frank excepted) couldn't achieve what you triumphantly set out do last season. You met Wilde and disappeared crying over your spilt milk presumably not liking what you heard and left Frank to take the flak, at least that is what I am told. I'm sorry Duncan but you come across as a touch pathetic. You masquerade as a wonderful, romantic and old - fashioned fan but this my friend is just a personal vendetta against a man who probably on a bad day at the office called you an ar5ehole a few times. Get over it and accept that sometimes even Lowe makes the right call, judged on your singular line of questioning at the AGM. Always finger pointing Duncan but never challenging or thought provoking questions making it easy for the board to dismiss your 'sentiments' in my very humble opinion. So the walk helped YOUR frustrations but what else did it achieve? Nothing because for all Connor's efforts no one helped him come up with an alternative solution, which should be of no surprise as you alledgedly couldn't finish what you started last time when it got tough last season. Enjoy your badge, treasure it, might be worth the price of a share next season. Well done though glad you got something to show for it and you managed to arrange all those family commitments that none of the rest of us ever have to do to support our beloved Saints. In the meantime your romantic bullsh1t isn't working and you are IMO hiding your bitter and twisted glee behind all this 'made me proud to be a Saint' guff, surely that should be a given on any day of any week, month or year regardless. Be a man Duncan don't give in to hating.

Exactly right Manji, and even if it was a 1,000 as claimed by the walkers (marchers implies some kind of glory so lets not use that) it was still less than 7.5% of the total number of Saints fans at the game today less the Swans. 7.5% made their point, well done but you remain in the minority, a tiny one at that, if you believe the BBC reports of 'several hundred'. You are oppose those who simply want to support the team and accept that given what Lowe and Wilde have inherited we should be pleased to still to be in touch with plan A - survival. Certainly no worse off than after 44 games last season any way. Did anyone hear about the spoilt Charlton fans protesting today or Watford fans. Did Leicester fans walk away from their club and desert Mandaric when he took them down. Why? A lack of prejudice whipped up by a poisoned and demented few, perhaps? I find it very amusing that considering some of the so called older, wiser and passionate fans that it took the guile of a 16 year old lad so the gutless with their petty and personal agendas could latch on to this lad's enterprise. Well done Connor and I mean that sincerely at least you had the courage and the guts to get off your backside and do something about it instead of moaning and groaning and dishing out the verbal abuse to anyone with a different view. If I was Rupert Lowe I would bring you into the fold and offer you a role at the club, your enterprise should be rewarded and your energy channelled more productively to help the club develop. So what did the walk achieve? Does anyone know? Yesterday was National Gorilla Suit Day, it looks like it the walk could have been in recognition of that fact although most of you left your suits at home although a fair few had them on judging by the pictures. Do you have plan now? At least you have a 1.5% larger minority than the shareholders who decided not to support Lowe at the AGM but unfortunately until you actually get significant support your actions will fall on deaf ears and entrench those you wish to remove. Why? Because whether we like it or not the vast majority showed today they believe Lowe and Wilde are a far better option or lesser evil whichever way you want to look at it than Crouch and his wild and ridiculous claims. Leon do you make a habit of making stupid false prophecies in January with regard to Saints? Well dane all, shows over and lets get back to supporting this club even though some of you will no doubt be gutted we didn't get stuffed 5-0 as per some posters sentiments - Charlie Wayman's among others. Your time for protest should have been last May and now like Crouch you are just a bunch of bitter after timers.

Now this may a cliche but I think given the air of animosity against the club this demonstration will generate I thought it was appropriate. (Also given the estimates are for 500 to attend that is still significantly less than 5% of our fans base - the Lib dems have more weight) Anyway some words of encouragement to Wotte and the boys: If you can keep your head when all about you, Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too, If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, not talk to wise,If you can dream and make dreams your master, And if you think and not make thoughts your aim If you can meet with triumph and disaster And treat those two imposters just the same.............. There is a few words to the wise for Crouch and the demonstrators but obviously too late for you to reconsider your proposed actions. Surely one of the main traits of a fan is to be able to ride with the good as well as the bad times but some can't treat those two imposters just the same and perhaps therefore you'll never have the Earth and everything in it or be a man my son! Time for a bed tomorrow is going to be a long day but win or lose one thing is for certain there will be no giving in to a portest of less than 5 or even 10% of the fanbase.

Tom isn't this all a bit eleventh hour finally coming up with your alternative proposal. At least you now have one and I am 'surprised' that Crouch is 'prepared' to step into the limelight. Not sure if you were at the Donacster game but 99% supporters were sadden by the result as any defeat but more so by the action of the minority and whilst you can waste scarce police resource on policing your march you won't be able to control what goes on in the stadium nicely stoked up by your demonstration and I assume your caveat in the final paragraph is an attempt to absolve you of any responsibility from a repeat of the scenes at the Doncaster game. Very odd that Ben has never been able to join the forum himself as most fans with a real passion for the club this place is like a magnet. All very odd but I wish you a safe march and that you don't stoke the fires of aggression of those on the march that it ruins the game for everyone else. Only the minority of our fans can turn a home game into a seething pot of hatred and have our players fearing every misplaced past or mistake. They deserve better but I doubt this has crossed your's or Mr Crouch's mind. Crouch in charge of the footballing decisions? Dear god what makes him any better qualified than Lowe and Wilde in that department? You don't need a long memory to work that out but if you can't get yourself some programmes from last january and read his fan friendly bullsh1t.

Well here we are on the eve of the big march and looking at the Saints forum tonight, home of the most fanatical section of our supporters we have only 45% of those who voted saying they will attend. A total of 204 fans many of whom would have voted without being able to come along I suspect either through 'work commitments', location or to simply up the ante. I suspect 200 will be about the total made up of genuine fans, youths spoiling for a fight and then the figureheads whose reasons for supporting the demonstration are more to do with their own personal agendas and grievances against Lowe than whether he is the best man to take the club forward or not. Despite everyone's best intentions, peaceful demonstrations to some 'football fans' are an anathema and I genuinely fear for the safety of those who feel happy taking their children on this march having witnessed some of the unsavoury scenes at the Doncaster game and having since identifed and been surprised by some of those involved. I hope it remains peaceful but I suspect judging by some of the comments on this thread fights will undoubtedly break out as some of the more rabid anti-lowe factions and those not even interested in our predictament revert to aggression and violence instead of words. What's really sad this will surely have a negative impact on the players before they even get to the ground and with fans wishing they are defeated just so they can make their demonstration even more 'laudable' then you surely have to question what is the real purpose of this demonstration. Makes you wonder what Killer makes of it all, a Lowe appointment and therefore one that the demonstrators will want removed glancing through some of the more ridiculous posts and its these posts that are worrying and suggest a few idiots will be in tow so watch yourselves. The last time Lowe was removed the fans were able to get behind an alternative campagn but this time its Lowe out, Wilde out and then what? Crouch? All I can say is don't believe his own hype and whilst he talked a good game, Crouch didn't have the courage to back his own convictions as his main priority as always was to curry favour with the fans or sit back and wait or say I told you so. That's an easy game to play and most of us footie fans play it very well. So we will have 200 fanatics trying to cajole and rile the vast majority of fans in the ground. Those fans who make up the middle ground who prefer to support and identify with the plight the club or remain simply conscientious objectors perhaps to both sids of the argument. I trust that when the majority ask the minority to sit down so they can enjoy the game we don't see alledgedly grown and considered respectable men becoming aggressive with women and children or families or any fan objecting to their aggression. Remember there are two sides to the argument and those who wish not to take part also have their rights so please respect them. That did not happen at the Doncaster game and I am concerned about tomorrows events and more so about the impact on the game. If we go a goal down and it all kicks off you the demonstrators will be playing a major part in our downfall along with you nemesis and that is not clever in any General's book. I have never felt so impassioned when tonight I type COYRs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cost more to police games because of a few fans who cannot accept that other fans have other views than them so choose to use their fists instead. Unless you can come up with a viable alternative all you are doing is advocating and supporting public disorder, creating aggressive and violent scenes just because you don't care for what others are trying to achieve for morons such as yourself. Hopefully, the £60,000 will be money well spent if it means getting idiots like you arrested and banned from 'supporting' the club home and away. I am looking forward to telling a few of you to sit down and no doubt be rewarded with a shower of spit as you shout your bile and wave your season tickets in some kind of hard done by protest and eyeball a few pensioners and children alike. So Stanley - Lowe out, Wilde out and then what? Try growing up and take a good look around you about what the majority think of you and those with equally strident views and whilst you're at it think about the recession and how you may consider you are actually contributing to the worry and misery that many maybe experiencing. You are obviously proud of your efforts and hell bent on ruining the enjoyment of the majority who simply want to support the Saints no matter what, still you will no doubt be posting on here at 3-05pm on Saturday - good boy. My guess it's only those who aren't bothered about their public perception and place in society who will have anything to do with any ugly demonstration in and out of the ground. With the TV cameras there it may not reflect well on them if they are seen taking part in ugly scenes by their employers. In the current environment redundancy decisions don't need to be made any easier.

Woof woof

Wes Tender, since when under Crouch did we average gates of 25k? Even under the resurgent performances masterminded by Pearson, gates did not increase dramatically until the last game of the season when all the 'real' supporters came along to 'celebrate'. No doubt many of these fans will be demonstarting on Saturday but unable to buy a ticket for the game. Pearson was responsible for some poor signings and got lucky with Wright who would not have graced our team had we very unusually been without our 3 first team keepers. What would Pearson have done under the constraints imposed on JV. The unity under Crouch was already begining to crack to such a degree that the anti-Lowe feeling wasn't as evident as it is now. Pearson may in the long term prove to be a good manager but the real test of any manager is one who can act with no money at all and perhaps that's why some Scottish managers are so revered. The likes of Coyle, Jimmy Calderwood and Levene all come to mind before we talk about the likes of Ferguson and Moyes - but there are exceptions to the rules as we have found to our cost. There was plenty of evidence to suggest that had Pearson stayed he would have been found out just like Ince. It is a bit rich Crouch spouting off and making some wildly unsupportive claims and even with his £2m or £6m we would be unlikely to be much higher than we are now and no doubt with a team of overpaid journeyman and under utilised as opposed to overly untilised youth resource. Balance in the team is needed but evidence suggests neither has or would have achieved it. The poisionous atmosphere is unpleasant and very damaging we all know that but what do we hope to achieve. Oust Lowe and Wilde for Crouch? Is that the answer? As an intelligent poster are you seriously saying that you would prefer Crouch in charge with his overblown fan friendly rhetoric pulling the wool over the fan's eyes as the club really does sink under his overblown hopes and expectations? I'm accused of being many things but I simply believe given the alternatives Lowe remains the only solution worthy of our support because he won't let populist and unproven views deviate the board from making decsions with the long term interests of the club at heart. Crouch's recent behaviour can at best be described as childish and his approach is the business equivalent of ADHT in my opinion and his desire to be a solution and liked by all will bring this club to its knees quicker than any divisive atmosphere generated by the fans against Lowe. Ultimately, a credible solution that will unite the fans will, we hope, come to the fore but in the meantime jumping out of the frying pan into the fire is absolutely insane and if nothing else continuity under Lowe is what this club needs than a well off but not rich enough fan memorable only for his false claims and overseer of our greatest but self inflicted escape. Our creditors are going to want to see continuity unless they can see real benefits of any change in personnel and I ask everyone to be honest, if you are a senior manager at Barclays are you going to be able to make a case for Crouch over Lowe to your shareholders and board? Another 10k??!! on the gate? Even if you can support that, will it help to blow it on some meal ticket, pension boosting wage for players of the likes of Euell or Idiakez? Demonstrate by all means but I hope you all have a plan other than pinning your hopes on the likes of Crouch and McMenemy. IMO you'll be heading for oblivion fuelled by a load of fan-friendly empty promises and rhetoric and I prefer to be told as it is and when it is necessary. Lowe tells us as it is and I prefer my facts unbellished and heavilly loaded with realism than with talks of play-offs and all on the strength of appointing a management team made up of a manager of 6 months experience at Eastleigh and a scout.

Knuckle draggers do have the ability to head up multi-million pound business and there are plenty of examples from local business through to listed companies in the UK, Europe and beyond. They are very clever and manage largely by fear and dirty tricks but that does not mean they have the business acumen to manage difficult situations usually because out of a combination of belief in their own hype, stubborness and no one willing to stand up to them. Their was an interesting article in the Times yesterday about the disgraced Lehman Brothers boss Richard Fuld aka the Gorilla - a knuckle dragger perhaps? I'm not implying anything, only to suggest that is a misconception that perceived knuckle draggers can't succeed in their area of expertise but it doesn't make them the best or most shrewd individual.

I agree, I haven't heard the interview but if he made the claim as quoted in the original thread it is simply a statement without any foundation. Did he attempt to qualify his comment? Crouch has been guilty from day one since he became chairman of pushing the boundaries of realism with wild fan friendly rhetoric that has amounted to nothing but false prophecies and empty promises. Crouch's approach IMO has always been to pin his hopes on finding a suitable investor and not actually do anything about reducing costs in the meantime. Actions speak louder than words Leon and your action from where I'm standing was simply to wait. Pearson maybe doing well in the lower leagues but so did Ince and there was no evidence that Pearson could deliver with the necessary shift to youth based on his managerial performance whilst at the club. Remember with Crouch's backing pearson took as from safety of 18th to the relegation zone for our last two games whereby we needed favours from teams around us to avoid the drop. We won but still needed Leicester to slip up and Crouch and Pearson margin of error boiled down to a very tense 20 minutes so lets not put either on a pedastal as saviours/some great catch we let slip, they were put back in the water until they were big enough with good reason. Lowe and Wilde have had the guts to make the changes and stand by them. Changes that Crouch should have instigated in January last year instead of simply talking about them as now he is simply coming across as overly smug and wise after the event the very traits his nemsis are accused of. Lowe has made mistakes but they were done in his belief he was and is working within the best course of action for Saints, Crouch's mistake was to do nothing other than on face of it, hope and dangle the carrot in front of fans willing to be his donkeys. The most dangerous enemy is the one you will be willingly to let in though your front door. Crouch's credentials has a dedicated fan are undeniable but in football there is always the issue of letting heart and passion rule your head and ability. Crouch's meal mouthed rhetoric at the AGM, in the local press and now on the radio is not exactly helping his cause. In fact IMO he is embarrassing himself a bit like a fan's/teacher's pet always with his hand in the air screaming Miss, Miss! FWIW Nick, I agree Lowe should have acted sooner with regard to JP but the same accusation should have been levelled at Crouch who was backing Burley up until the Scottish FA unbelievably saved us from a manager who had long since lost the plot. This time though it looks as though Lowe's promotion from within looks infinitely better than Crouch's without any of Crouch's / McMenemy's fanfare. I'd sooner have a Dutch coach with Wotte's background than a manager with 6 months experience in the Southern Conference league and a man deemed not suitable for a role above that of a scout. I hope Crouch didn't give the interview to Solent in his greenhouse.

You don't believe the saying then that 'a fool and his money are easily parted'. It seems to be the view that Crouch is more wealthy than Lowe or Wilde but that doesn't mean his pockets are deep enough to sustain the club long term especially based on his apparent wish to introduce fan friendly policies. Good luck if he wants to put his money where is mouth is and I shall watch with interest and a large dose of incredulity if he can take the club any further forward in the next two years than the last time Lowe was removed from office. Crouch is a fan and a rich one to boot but that doesn't make him an obvious choice to run this club as IMO he is simply not shrewd enough and at times has conducted himself somewhat childishly for a chairman of any real credibility. We need a chairman who can manage the club within its own revenue streams as sugar daddies with significant fortunes are thin on the ground. Crouch maybe a fan but what will his fortune deliver the club let alone his ability to withstand the flak when the going inevitably gets tough. £2m? £6m? An individual who wants to take this club forward the easy way will need a minimum of £50m just to turn us into a yo-yo club like WBA, Birmingham or Reading and god knows how much to buy some time in the premiership as Sunderland and Portsmouth are still trying to do although the latter looks to have given up the effort. If Crouch is the solution to our problems then IMO it will get a whole lot worse and we simply need to back Lowe until, with our support, he creates a club worth investing in. At the moment only a mug would buy or inject their large sums of cash before administration. To avoid this Crouch would be better off rallying his support behind the board and encouraging the fans to do likewise. All the Lowe hatred and no one has a master plan that doesn't already look holed before a lot of you jump in towards your promised land, in essence nothing more than a stay of execution. Unless Crouch can hire a shrewd and strong CEO with complete automony over the company then regardess of Crouch's cash we would be screwed as he was a disaster in even his previous and thankfully short tenure. People have said that Lowe makes them sick well if you are looking for an antidote please don't try reading Leon's programme notes from last season. It will have you questioning his business acumen like his current alledged stance of saying I'll put in £2m if Wilde and Lowe can match it. This is crude schoolboy boasting/bullying at best, along the lines of my house is better than yours and hardly a way to conduct professional negotiations, especially when Crouch doesn't have enough to get us to the end of next season. Achieves nothing as no doubt time will tell and if Leon wants revenge then he'd better wait before the dish gets a little cooler as at the moment IMO he looks ridiculous.

If it wasn't so sad it would be funny but 1 week in to their campaign the 'fringe' has drummed up a couple of busloads of fans for a demonstration against the club. 162 have said they will be there by clicking a 'yes button' which is hardly a commitment but assuming 162 do attend you have drummed up less than 1.5% of even our lowest crowd this season and less than 0.6% of those who turned up for the Sheff Utd game last season and the Man U cup games. Hardly a landslide is it? Goes to show that as much as some of you like to bark your damaging comments you have no bite. Enjoy your march which I suspect will be down to a mere handful by the time you reach the ground as people pop into the shops and pubs on the way too embarrassed to carry on. 162 + Mary Corbett although she has plenty of time to change her mind about 3 times between now and Saturday. See you at the game and play nice, no aggressive eyeballing senior citizens and inviting banks of fellow fans outside to settle YOUR differences just because they ask you to sit down so they can watch the game they've paid to see. 162 and a following that is falling in percentage terms the more we move on and see the folly of this anarchic action. What do we want?! Lowe Out How do we do it?!.....err.......ummmm...don't know. Who do want?!...Err...well Crouch is the obvious one but he didn't do so good last time so....Mary is Saints through and through but well you know...how about Lawrie, well we couldn't afford him as he will need about £500ph to cover his expenses (£75k/23 home games)..Who do you want?????????? Don't know that either. As demonstrations go this could be one of the worse, who is going to be your celebrity leading you in? Leon Crouch or Hong Kong Phooey?

And that was the total sum of her due diligence was it Duncan? Impressive that you don't coinsider her culpable afterall she was a non-exceutive director unless I am mistaken for which I apologise in advance if my facts are wrong. Non-execs have a key role in ensuring the executive board act in the best interests of the shareholders don't they? Not one where you simply accept what you are told by the people you are supposed to be monitoring surely. Ever heard of Nick Leeson? How many times are we told things in life and if you are not happy you investigate or get a second opinion but perhaps people like Corbett and yourself always trust what the salesman / expert tells you. Your grudge against Lowe is completely personal and therefore not based on a fair assessment of the current regime and viable alternatives that could be implemented at short notice. The big man would be the one who could rise above previous insults and immediately adopt the higher ground but like Crouch you act like some errant schoolboy intent on revenge without any consideration of the consequences and the future of yourself and the things you supposedly support. Your inability to handle you anger and hatred must be having an impact on your personal life as its driving you to distraction and obsession. Take this opportunity Duncan and follow the lead of Frank Cousins if no one else.

Obama doesn't write his owns speeches, so what? Remember, Crouch's alarming claims in his programme notes this time last year? Some of the nuggets from memory were 'we are financially secure and don't need to release players' Rasiak and Skacel did not got out on Loan at the 11th hour then and Crouch proverbially did not hide behind Hoos whilst he delivered the somewhat surprising news. Then we had Crouch's rhetoric about still aiming for the playoffs when even in January most sane fans knew we were fighting for survival. Crouch also told us how Dodd and Gorman despite all the applicants were the best pairing to take the team forward - no financial concerns there then and then we pluck Pearson from obscurity who most would have thought a bizarre appointment until you considered his connections. I'm with Jonah on this and I would like to hear from Mrs Corbett exactly what was her contribution as a non-executive director and how did she use her role to postively influence the direction of this club. It's the likes of Corbett and McMenemy who IMO lazily ride on their past connections with the club as their own personal meal ticket as oppose to actually contribute to its success and development. They both need to change their tune but like those who love to latch onto to their words 'of encouragement' they only have one tuneless and monotonous drum and one stick with which to beat it. Corbett seems to be under the misunderstanding she has some kind of hereditary right to her position because of what her father did for the club. The problem is with proper hereditary honours comes responsibility and desire to protect and grow the dynasty not winge and kneejerk publicly from one solution to another to curry favour with the vocal minority. IMO respect and position is earned in my opinion and the likes of Corbett, McMenemy, Crouch and Trant especiallya s a group of ineffectives lost mine long ago and have simply been outplayed and are now acting as bad losers. Should have taken a leaf out of Bobby Charlton's book on how to act as an ambassador and director of the club you hold dear. Mud slinging in public is best avioded if you actually want to influence the path of direction. If Crouch as a fan is the best person to take this club forward then I can think of many intelligent and erudite fans capable of doing teh job better than Crouch they just don't have their own businesses and trappings to show off their success. Nonetheless, they are still very good business people who have simply had a successful career as an employee. Fan status is not a credential in the top 10 attributes required to run the club and even then its only a nice to have. If having read Wotte's words on the OS today, fans are still intent on the demostration they like Corbett are in grave danger of deservedly reaping what they sow and I don't actually think you have any idea what you are demostrating against or what your solution will be if in the unlikely event it is successful. Seriously, god save us all if any of the crew in position last January are reappointed, bumbling rhetoric and fan friendly policies to silence the vocal minority to kid themslevs you have unity will be a disaster in line with the falls of Wimbledon and Aldershot in recent memory. Some of you won't even live to see the club return. Good luck.

Sorry Trouers but I think you picked the wrong song. If you're on this march then to every true Saints SUPPORTER you an.....(Btw - you won't be on this demo anymore than me - best leave it to the 20 who have committed by voting YES!) Received a letter just the other day, Don't seem they wanna know you no more, They've laid it down given you their score, Within the first two lines it bluntly read. You're not to come and see us no more, Keep away from our door, Don't come 'round here no more What on earth did you do that for? Our aunt, she don't wanna know she says, What will the neighbours think they'll think, We don't that's what they'll think, we don't, But I will, 'cause I know they think I don't. Our uncle he don't wanna know he says, We are a disgrace to the human race he says, How can you show your face, When you're a disgrace to the human race? No committment, you're an embarrassment, Yes, an embarrassment, a living endorsement, The intention that you have booked, Was an intention that was overlooked. They say, stay away, Don't want you home today, Keep away from our door, Don't come 'round here no more. Our dad, he don't wanna know he says, This is a serious matter, Too late to reconsider, No one's gonna wanna know ya ! Our mum, she don't wanna know, I'm feelin' twice as old, she says, Thought she had a head on her shoulder, 'Cause I'm feelin' twice as older, I'm feelin' twice as older. You're an embarrassment... COYRs!